Why should the us leave the un?

[Guest_ikonboard]

Kofi's Heroes

November 12, 2004; Page A12

 

Kofi Annan ordered United Nations flags at half-staff yesterday in tribute to lately departed Palestinian supremo Yasser Arafat. This, the folks at Turtle Bay tell us, is standard operating procedure whenever the head of a member state dies in office. Excuse us for asking, but what U.N.-member state did Arafat lead?

 

Well, none: "Palestine" has observer, not member, status. But Mr. Annan amended protocol in order to give Arafat the same recognition in death as the U.N. accorded him in life.

 

Say what you will about Mr. Annan's decision, it is certainly true that for 30 years the U.N. did what it could to elevate Arafat from terrorist to statesman. That's something Americans might bear in mind when next told the war on terror must be conducted under U.N. auspices.

 

Meanwhile, the Jerusalem Post reports that the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, responsible for more than a score of suicide bombings, has renamed itself the Arafat Martyrs' Brigades. Now, there is a fitting tribute.

[Chiefin]

Fuck Arafat & the UN !

[porkchop]

Fuck Arafat & the UN !

I'll second that motion and Double Fuck 'em  :veryangry:

[KC Cheef]

For once-I just don't know what to say

[Guest_ikonboard]

Oh no boys. You need to open your mind. He was a great man of peace. He won The Nobel Peace Prize in 1994.

 

 

30th Anniversary of Arafat's Olympic Murders  

By Howard Kohr

AIPAC.org | March 12, 2003

 

March 2 marked the 30th anniversary of the cold-blooded murder by PLO Chairman Yasir Arafat's group Black September of U.S. Ambassador to Khartoum Cleo A. Noel Jr. and his deputy George Curtis Moore, along with a Belgian diplomat.  Arafat had personally ordered the assassinations.

 

When he signed the Oslo agreement in 1993, Americans and Israelis hoped Arafat had shed his terrorist past for good.  Tragically, he is still promoting terrorist attacks that killed hundreds of innocent civilians, including suicide bombings by his own Fatah militia al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.

 

On the night of March 1, 1973, Black September terrorists burst into the Saudi Embassy in Khartoum, seizing Noel and Moore and other men attending the reception. The terrorists demanded the release of Sirhan Sirhan, the Palestinian assassin of Robert Kennedy, as well as terrorists held in Israeli and European prisons.  President Nixon refused to negotiate.

 

According to the Arlington National Cemetery website, Arafat was taped ordering the terrorists to murder the three men.  They obeyed, machine-gunning the hapless diplomats.  Arafat then called back to verify that his orders had been carried out.

 

The early 1970s were the heyday of Black September, an affiliate of Arafat's Fatah group specializing in international terrorism.  Its short, violent history included aircraft hijackings, kidnappings, letter-bombings and massacres.  In a 1974 book Christopher Dobson wrote prophetically that "Black September may die, but new secret societies will spring up to take their place in the cruel tradition of the Assassins, for the fatal flaw still exists and will not be eradicated until many years have passed."

 

Thirty years later, Dobson's prediction is the stuff of everyday reality.  Black September's successors are named Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, among others, and they still engage in terror.  Documents captured by Israel last year prove Arafat's personal complicity in these vile acts.

 

Arafat's responsibility for the assassinations of Noel and Moore, as well as for the more recent Palestinian terrorist attacks, probably played a significant role in President Bush's wise decision last year to insist on Arafat's replacement as a precondition for U.S. recognition of a Palestinian state.  As we commemorate the deaths of Noel and Moore, we ought to remember that their murderer is still giving orders that kill, maim and injure innocent men, women and children.

[KC Cheef]

Well-I don't know about that, but I'm thinking there was some beastiality somewhere in the family lineage.

Man-have you ever been up close to a camel?

If those weren't camel lips--I'll ride a Hardley.

[KC Cheef]

Koffee Annan, and Mandella won Nobel peace prizes too.

I sure wish you all would figure out a way to nominate me.

I couldn't win it though--I think it cost's too much to be awarded one.

[pablo94]

My first reaction is God Bless his soul, my second reaction is that we will continue to work for a free Palestinian state that's at peace with Isreal."

 

George Bush's reactions yesterday.

 

I am interested in seeing how the UN and the US handle the coming days for the Palestinians. My understanding is they are going have a democratic election to replace the three major positions Arafat filled as the leader of the PLO.

 

Personally, I think he was a piece of crap, but I can respect one thing,his extreme Nationalist agenda to create a Palestinian state. He never wavered from this agenda in his 35 years as their leader, always stayed the course right or wrong, and never changed his mind about it despite what pressures were being put on him to do things differently.

 

Sound familiar?????????

[Guest_ikonboard]

My first reaction is God Bless his soul, my second reaction is that we will continue to work for a free Palestinian state that's at peace with Isreal."

 

George Bush's reactions yesterday.

 

I am interested in seeing how the UN and the US handle the coming days for the Palestinians. My understanding is they are going have a democratic election to replace the three major positions Arafat filled as the leader of the PLO.

 

Personally, I think he was a piece of crap, but I can respect one thing,his extreme Nationalist agenda to create a Palestinian state. He never wavered from this agenda in his 35 years as their leader, always stayed the course right or wrong, and never changed his mind about it despite what pressures were being put on him to do things differently.

 

Sound familiar?????????

Hummm, it sure does. Sounds like Hitler since he and Hitler had the same amount of control over all aspects of their people. (got go with he big boy out of the gate)

 

I know you are trying to tie this to Bush but you did not finish your thought before you began to type. If we would have not elected Bush we would have had Kerry. And the transition of power would have happened. Bush would have had no power as Clinton, Carter and Bush 1, no longer do. The people in the USA make the choice.

 

Had the people under Hitler or Arafat or Sadam not elected Arafat or Hitler or Sadam, oh well, it is not the people decision. They would remain in power.

 

Try again. But please, put some thought into it.

[Chiefin]

Oh no boys. You need to open your mind. He was a great man of peace. He won The Nobel Peace Prize in 1994.

 

 

30th Anniversary of Arafat's Olympic Murders  

By Howard Kohr

AIPAC.org | March 12, 2003

 

March 2 marked the 30th anniversary of the cold-blooded murder by PLO Chairman Yasir Arafat's group Black September of U.S. Ambassador to Khartoum Cleo A. Noel Jr. and his deputy George Curtis Moore, along with a Belgian diplomat.  Arafat had personally ordered the assassinations.

 

When he signed the Oslo agreement in 1993, Americans and Israelis hoped Arafat had shed his terrorist past for good.  Tragically, he is still promoting terrorist attacks that killed hundreds of innocent civilians, including suicide bombings by his own Fatah militia al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.

 

On the night of March 1, 1973, Black September terrorists burst into the Saudi Embassy in Khartoum, seizing Noel and Moore and other men attending the reception. The terrorists demanded the release of Sirhan Sirhan, the Palestinian assassin of Robert Kennedy, as well as terrorists held in Israeli and European prisons.  President Nixon refused to negotiate.

 

According to the Arlington National Cemetery website, Arafat was taped ordering the terrorists to murder the three men.  They obeyed, machine-gunning the hapless diplomats.  Arafat then called back to verify that his orders had been carried out.

 

The early 1970s were the heyday of Black September, an affiliate of Arafat's Fatah group specializing in international terrorism.  Its short, violent history included aircraft hijackings, kidnappings, letter-bombings and massacres.  In a 1974 book Christopher Dobson wrote prophetically that "Black September may die, but new secret societies will spring up to take their place in the cruel tradition of the Assassins, for the fatal flaw still exists and will not be eradicated until many years have passed."

 

Thirty years later, Dobson's prediction is the stuff of everyday reality.  Black September's successors are named Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, among others, and they still engage in terror.  Documents captured by Israel last year prove Arafat's personal complicity in these vile acts.

 

Arafat's responsibility for the assassinations of Noel and Moore, as well as for the more recent Palestinian terrorist attacks, probably played a significant role in President Bush's wise decision last year to insist on Arafat's replacement as a precondition for U.S. recognition of a Palestinian state.  As we commemorate the deaths of Noel and Moore, we ought to remember that their murderer is still giving orders that kill, maim and injure innocent men, women and children.

The Nobel Peace Prize   what a joke.......

[pablo94]

My first reaction is God Bless his soul, my second reaction is that we will continue to work for a free Palestinian state that's at peace with Isreal."

 

George Bush's reactions yesterday.

 

I am interested in seeing how the UN and the US handle the coming days for the Palestinians. My understanding is they are going have a democratic election to replace the three major positions Arafat filled as the leader of the PLO.

 

Personally, I think he was a piece of crap, but I can respect one thing,his extreme Nationalist agenda to create a Palestinian state. He never wavered from this agenda in his 35 years as their leader, always stayed the course right or wrong, and never changed his mind about it despite what pressures were being put on him to do things differently.

 

Sound familiar?????????

Hummm, it sure does. Sounds like Hitler since he and Hitler had the same amount of control over all aspects of their people. (got go with he big boy out of the gate)

 

I know you are trying to tie this to Bush but you did not finish your thought before you began to type. If we would have not elected Bush we would have had Kerry. And the transition of power would have happened. Bush would have had no power as Clinton, Carter and Bush 1, no longer do. The people in the USA make the choice.

 

Had the people under Hitler or Arafat or Sadam not elected Arafat or Hitler or Sadam, oh well, it is not the people decision. They would remain in power.

 

Try again. But please, put some thought into it.

I wasn't trying to point anything directly at Bush in a negative way. I think Bush's greatest strength is his resolve, determination, and ability to stay true to his beliefs. That is what I respect about him most of all, even if I don't always agree with his polices.

 

That's the same thing I respected about Arafat.

 

That was my only point.

 

I am not like some folks. Bush is the president I will support him for another four years, especially in regards to finishing our business in Iraq and getting those boys home as fast as he can. Most likely, it will run into another presidential  term before that happens.

 

My only concerns with Bush are certain domestic issues and the economy.

 

I have supported the war since we decided to go over there. Prior to the vote to go to war, admittedlly, I was on the fence, believed we needed more support worldwide, and was against the vote same as Senator Byrd.

 

I won't go into your Hitler comparison because it is right, but I have seen Hitler used as a comparison/justification for our invasion of Iraq. That I am not total agreement with on.

[ChiefLoneWolf]

Fuck Arafat & the UN !

I'll second that motion and Double Fuck 'em  :veryangry:

Motion carried!!!!!

Ditto, ditto, ditto!

[Guest_ikonboard]

I won't go into your Hitler comparison because it is right, but I have seen Hitler used as a comparison/justification for our invasion of Iraq. That I am not total agreement with on.

Nope, not where I was going with that either. Just showing the difference between us and them. We do have some say, the "public" over there has none.

[Chiefin]

Look at all the Good things Hitler did..........

[FiremanDave]

Fuck Isreal, to me they have taken a page from our own history as well as that of Germany's.  I do find it interesting that when other countries of the world try the same kind of expansionism and genocide we as the Police of the world come down hard and heavy on them, but because they are a nation of Judisim we look the other way.

[Chiefin]

Fuck Isreal, to me they have taken a page from our own history as well as that of Germany's.  I do find it interesting that when other countries of the world try the same kind of expansionism and genocide we as the Police of the world come down hard and heavy on them, but because they are a nation of Judisim we look the other way.

Fuck Isreal... ??? ,,,OK Fuck them too!

[Guest_ikonboard]

Fuck Isreal, to me they have taken a page from our own history as well as that of Germany's.  I do find it interesting that when other countries of the world try the same kind of expansionism and genocide we as the Police of the world come down hard and heavy on them, but because they are a nation of Judisim we look the other way.

Wow, you really have no idea of what you are talking about.

 

I would love to hear you expand on this "they have taken a page from our own history as well as that of Germany's".

[porkchop]

Fuck Isreal, to me they have taken a page from our own history as well as that of Germany's.  I do find it interesting that when other countries of the world try the same kind of expansionism and genocide we as the Police of the world come down hard and heavy on them, but because they are a nation of Judisim we look the other way.

Wow, you really have no idea of what you are talking about.

 

I would love to hear you expand on this "they have taken a page from our own history as well as that of Germany's".

Instead of UN resolution 181 dividing Palestine and creating the state of Israel in 1948..

 

They should have given them Switzerland as their homeland..But kept 'em away from the banks!!

[Fugdbdt]

"Hitler sings Manilow" is one of my favorite cd's -

 

VEW CAME.  

 

VEW  GAVE.

 

VITOUT TAKING.

 

VUT I SENT.

 

VU AVAY.

 

OH MUNDAY.

 

VILL VU.

 

KISS ME UND STOP.

 

ME VUM SHAKING...

 

Thanks, Danny

[Iron Mike]

I have no problem with the Palistinians wanting their own State. I do, however, have big problem with terrorists. The UN can attempt to cover up Arafat's activities and try to make him out to be a man of peace, but it's all BULLSH*T! Anyone who targets, or supports the targeting of children, is a terrorist, and deserves no respect what so ever.

[Guest_ikonboard]

Fuck Isreal, to me they have taken a page from our own history as well as that of Germany's.  I do find it interesting that when other countries of the world try the same kind of expansionism and genocide we as the Police of the world come down hard and heavy on them, but because they are a nation of Judisim we look the other way.

Wow, you really have no idea of what you are talking about.

 

I would love to hear you expand on this "they have taken a page from our own history as well as that of Germany's".

Instead of UN resolution 181 dividing Palestine and creating the state of Israel in 1948..

Politically motivated mythology of "Palestine"

Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian

identity serves only tactical purposes. The

founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool

in the continuing battle against Israel ...

-- Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head

of the PLO and member of its Executive

Council, Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977

The Prophet Muhammad said, "War is deception

-al-Bukhari, al-Jami al Sahih

 

 

Although a politically based mythology has grown up around and smothered, the documented past of the land known as "Palestine," there is recognition among preeminent scholars of what one of them has called "the more chauvinist Arab version of the region's history as having begun with the Arabs and Islam."1

 

The claim that Arab-Muslim "Palestinians" were "emotionally tied" to "their own plot of land in Palestine" -- based upon a "consistent presence" on "Arab" land for "thousands of years"2 -- is an important part of that recent mythology.

 

It was contrived of late in a thus far successful Orwellian propaganda effort-an appeal to the emotions that would "counter Zionism" and that "serves" tactical purposes as a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel," as the late PLO official Muhsin stated candidly in an interview, quoted at the beginning of this chapter.

 

In order to understand how that tool, aided by a general near-ignorance of the "unrelenting past," has distorted the perception of the present, a look at the "yesterday" of "Palestine" is necessary.

 

The inspection will be focused upon completing a circle-tracing the actual conditions and events that have been glossed over or omitted from the dialogue about the Arab-Israeli conflict; they are conditions and events that shaped the real political, economic, and demographic circumstances in the area. Those circumstances in turn critically affected what "justice" really consists of-for the Jewish and Arab refugees, or the "Palestinian Problem"-for the Arab-Israeli conflict.  Illuminating that situation reveals and fills in the chasm between the documented facts and the Arab claims, and gives perspective to those contentions and assumptions that have become key in interpreting what is "just" for the population in question today.

 

"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 A.D. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years...," the Muslim chairman of the Syrian Delegation attested in his remarks to the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919.3

 

The British Palestine Royal Commission reported in 1937 that "it is time, surely, that Palestinian 'citizenship' . . . should be recognized as what it is, as nothing but a legal formula devoid of moral meaning."4

 

That the claim of "age-old Arab Palestinian rights to Arab Palestine" is contradicted by history has been pointed out by eminent historians and Arabists.

 

According to the Reverend James Parkes, "The Land was named Palestina by he Romans to eradicate all trace of its Jewish history..."

 

It may seem inappropriate to have devoted so much time to "a situation which passed away two thousand years ago." But it is only politically that the defeat by Rome, and the scattering of the Jewish population, made a decisive change in the history of The Land. That which had been created by more than a thousand years of Jewish history [a thousand years before A.D. 135] remained, as did that which was beginning to be created in the thoughts of the young Christian Church.5

Many authorities have addressed the misconceptions surrounding the word Palestine. The name derived from "other migrants from the northwest, the Philistines.  Though the latest arrivals, and though they only exercised control over the whole country for a few uncertain decades, they had been the cause of its name of Palestine. These Philistines were an Aegean people, driven out of Greece and Aegean islands around about 1300 B.C.E. They moved southward along the Asiatic coast and in about 1200 attempted to invade Egypt. Turned back, they settled in the maritime plain of southern 'Palestine', where they founded a series of city-states."6

According to Bernard Lewis, an eminent authority, "The word Palestine does not occur in the Old Testament. . . . Palestine does not occur in the New Testament at all."

 

The official adoption of the name Palestine in Roman usage to designate the territories of the former Jewish principality of Judea seems to date from after the suppression of the great Jewish revolt of Bar-Kokhba in the year 135 C.E.... it would seem that the name Judea was abolished ... and the country renamed Palestine or Syria Palestina, with the ... intention of obliterating its historic Jewish identity. The earlier name did not entirely disappear, and as late as the 4th century C.E. we still find a Christian author, Epiphanius, referring to "Palestine, that is, Judea."

As many, including Professor Lewis, have pointed out, "From the end of the Jewish state in antiquity to the beginning of British rule, the area now designated by the name Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries; it was a group of provincial subdivisions, by no means always the same, within a larger entity.7 [see the map of "Ancient Palestine" in Appendix I"

In other words, it appears that Palestine never was an independent nation and the Arabs never named the land to which they now claim rights. Most Arabs do not admit so candidly that "Palestinian identity" is a maneuver "only for political reasons" as did Zuheir Muhsin. But the Arab world, until recently, itself frequently negated the validity of any claim of an "age-old Palestinian Arab" identity.

 

The Arabs in Judah-cum-Palestine were regarded either as members of a "pan-Arab nation," as a Muslim community, or, in a tactical ploy, as "Southern Syrians."8 The beginning article of a 1919 Arab Covenant proposed by the Arab Congress in Jerusalem stated that "The Arab lands are a complete and indivisible whole, and the divisions of whatever nature to which they have been subjected are not approved nor recognized by the Arab nation."9 In the same year, the General Syrian Congress had the opposite view; it expressed eagerness to stress an exclusively Syrian identity: "We ask that there should be no separation of the southern part of Syria, known as Palestine . . .'10 The Arab historian George Antonius delineated Palestine in 1939 as part of "the whole of the country of th name [syria] which is now split up into mandated territories..."11 As late a the 1950s, there was still a schizoid pattern to the Arab views. In 1951, the Constitution of the Arab Ba'ath Party stated:

 

The Arabs form one nation. This nation has the natural right to live in a single state and to be free to direct its own destiny ... to gather all the Arabs in a single independent Arab state.12

A scant five years later, a Saudi Arabian United Nations delegate in 1956 asserted that "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria."13  In 1974, Syria's President Assad, although a PLO supporter, incorporated both claims in a remarkable definition:

... Palestine is not only a part of our Arab homeland, but a basic part of southern Syria." 14

The one identity never seriously considered until the 1967 Six-Day War -- and then only as a "tool" -- was an "Arab Palestinian" one, and the absence was not merely disregard. Clearly there was no such age-old or even century-old "national identity." According to the British Palestine Royal Commission Report,

In the twelve centuries or more that have passed since the Arab conquest Palestine has virtually dropped out of history.... In economics as in politics Palestine lay outside the main stream of the world's life. In the realm of thought, in science or in letters, it made no contribution to modem civilization. Its last state was worse than its first.15

1 . P.J. Vatikiotis, Nasser and His Generation (London, 1978), p. 254.

2. Thames Television Series, London, "Palestine," aired in the United States January February, 1979.

 

3. Minutes of the Supreme Council, in D.H. Miller, My Diary at the Conference of Paris, 22 vols. (New York, 1924), vol. 14, p. 405

 

4. Palestine Royal Commission Report, Command Paper # 5479,1937, p. 120, para. 14.

 

5. James Parkes, Whose Land? (Middlesex, England: Penguin Books, 1970), p. 31.

 

6. Ibid., p. 17.

 

7.Bernard Lewis, "The Palestinians and the PLO, a Historical Approach," Commentary, January 1975, p. 32-48.

 

8. Yehoshua Porath, "Social Aspects of the Emergence of the Palestinian National Movement," in Society and Political Structure in the Arab World, M. Milson, ed. (New York, 1973), pp. 101, 107, 119.

 

9. Marie Syrkin, "Palestinian Nationalism: Its Development and Goal," in Michael Curtis et al., eds., The Palestinians: People, History, Politics (New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction Books, 1975), p. 200. Syrkin found that Haj Amin al-Husseini-the notorious Mufti of Jerusalem himself - "originally opposed the Palestine Mandate because it separated Palestine from Syria." Ibid.

 

10. Ibid. According to Neville Mandel, Arabs and Zionism Before World War I (Berkeley, 1976), p. 152, n. 49: "After World War 1, when the nature of an independent Arab state and it's component parts were being discussed, the term 'Greater Syria' was advanced to embrace the Fertile Crescent and its desert hinterland. Palestine, as an integral part of that area, was dubbed 'Southern Syria.' But these terms were not in use in 1913 and 1914, when very few nationalists contemplated complete Arab independence."  

 

11. George Antonius, The Arab Awakening. The Story of the Arab National Movement (Philadelphia, New York, Toronto: J.B. Lippincott, 1939), p. 15, n.1; also see Mandel, Arabs and Zionism, pp. 151-153.

 

12. The Balath Party "describes itself as a 'national, popular revolutionary movement fighting for Arab unity, Freedom and Socialism,"' in 1951. Syrkin, "Nationalism," in Curtis et al., Palestinians; p. 200; also see Menahem Milson, "Medieval and Modem Intellectual Traditions in the Arab World," in Daedalus, Summer 1972, particularly pp. 24-26; Michel Aflaq, prominent Ba'athist and Christian, on Arab Nationalism, cited in Milson, above; also see Aflaq, Fi Sabil al Baath (Arabic) Beirut, 1962 (3rd printing), cited in Milson, p. 26; also see Albert Hourani, Arabic Thought in the Liberal Age 1798-1939 (London: Oxford, 1962), particularly p. 301.  

 

13. Ahmed Shukeiry, as head of the PLO, to Security Council on May 31, 1956, cited by Syrkin in "Nationalism," in Curtis et al., Palestinians, p. 201.

 

14. President Hafez Assad of Syria, Radio Damascus, March 8, 1974.

 

15. Palestine Royal Commission Report, Chapter 1, p. 6, para.