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MSG

 

Also, there is a link there to read about one particularly nasty accident and the driver's recovery, which took years.

 

I don't agree with everything on this site, but there are some interesting articles there.

 

Also a link to Carver.  Saw something like this at Sturgis this year.

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Not pushing to send people to another forum.  I agree with you about this forum.  I think the information at that site certainly has it's place though, and some of those articles are worth reading about.  We don't talk about stopping distances, tire pressure and temperature, passenger etiquette, how to pick up a bike, and other safety issues here that often.  And for people who haven't had a safety course, the majority of that is good info, as the writer was a MSF instructor.
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stopping distance??  on a Chief?

 

hahahahahahahha buhhahdhahahahahaha

 

snort

 

hahahhahahahahaha

 

I always try to leave enough room to coast to a stop in neutral. Makes me slow, but I know I won't hit the guy in front of me.

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Falcon1,

 

I see your point.  Our three tribes have been battling several instances where fellow members in our group rides have endangered either themselves or their fellow riders with casual and sometimes stupid riding techniques.  While that site covers the basics (and I have to admit, the guy has seen a lot of accidents, way too many) I do have to disagree with some of the observations listed.  

A perfect example is entering an intersection with a car next to you.  He even mentions that he'd like an 18wheeler.  Not me.  I nerely got sideswipped that way a number of years ago.  I was going through the intersection when halfway through, the SUV jammed on its brakes and a Porsche went screaming through ahead of them.  I barely missed the Porsche because I couldn't see through the SUV.  I'd rather be my own judge of someone coming through an intersection that rely on a coffee swilling, celphone-talking cage driver.

Before all our group rides, we do hammer out the rules of the road for the newbies joining us.  However, we don't take into account whether or not they've take the MSF course let alone ever controlled their bike under a panic brake.  

The great thing about our group is that we do take care of our own and we do watch for our new members.  The best compliment we received was during a poker run for a local hospital.  Some of the main group of rider lost the CHP escot by not following the rules (which we were dictated to us at the beginning of the ride...go through all lights..you're being escorted).

Anyway, in our pack of forty, the IIRA brothers took over.  Chopper took the lead, FoosH and I ran blockers and Danny ran tailgunner.  We didn't loose a single person and had no accidents.  We had half a dozen people come up to us afterwards and thank us for watching out for them.  They were impressed with our leadership.  In fact, we have an invitation to help another local club out at their next event.  They've asked us to help provide escorts and pack leaders.

Now, I'm not saying we have the best rules of the road or riders.  Hell, what we do would probably get us arrested in other states when it comes to blocking and gunning, but we've successfully formulated our rules and ride for the past two years with great success.

Point more people to that site.  Get them educated.  The more people know, the more people I'll trust riding with us.

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Falcon1,

 

I see your point.  Our three tribes have been battling several instances where fellow members in our group rides have endangered either themselves or their fellow riders with casual and sometimes stupid riding techniques.  While that site covers the basics (and I have to admit, the guy has seen a lot of accidents, way too many) I do have to disagree with some of the observations listed.  

A perfect example is entering an intersection with a car next to you.  He even mentions that he'd like an 18wheeler.  Not me.  I nerely got sideswipped that way a number of years ago.  I was going through the intersection when halfway through, the SUV jammed on its brakes and a Porsche went screaming through ahead of them.  I barely missed the Porsche because I couldn't see through the SUV.  I'd rather be my own judge of someone coming through an intersection that rely on a coffee swilling, celphone-talking cage driver.

Before all our group rides, we do hammer out the rules of the road for the newbies joining us.  However, we don't take into account whether or not they've take the MSF course let alone ever controlled their bike under a panic brake.  

The great thing about our group is that we do take care of our own and we do watch for our new members.  The best compliment we received was during a poker run for a local hospital.  Some of the main group of rider lost the CHP escot by not following the rules (which we were dictated to us at the beginning of the ride...go through all lights..you're being escorted).

Anyway, in our pack of forty, the IIRA brothers took over.  Chopper took the lead, FoosH and I ran blockers and Danny ran tailgunner.  We didn't loose a single person and had no accidents.  We had half a dozen people come up to us afterwards and thank us for watching out for them.  They were impressed with our leadership.  In fact, we have an invitation to help another local club out at their next event.  They've asked us to help provide escorts and pack leaders.

Now, I'm not saying we have the best rules of the road or riders.  Hell, what we do would probably get us arrested in other states when it comes to blocking and gunning, but we've successfully formulated our rules and ride for the past two years with great success.

Point more people to that site.  Get them educated.  The more people know, the more people I'll trust riding with us.

We could still do a lot better, if you ask me.

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We could still do a lot better, if you ask me.

There's always room for improvement.  What I like 'bout our little group is...

if someone thinks I'm too fucked up (in the liver OR in the head), and shouldn't be riding, they can come up and tell me.  No worries.  +Likewise with unsafe riding skills.

 

BTW...MSG = dead link for me.  

mono-sodium glutemate site ???

 

:wave:

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Falcon

Thanks for the link.

There is a lot there that we could all at least consider.

I've never taken an MSF course, but it will be on my list next spring.

That's what our IIRA site is all about--taking care of each other.

If one member who visits that site learns one thing that helps him stay alive down the road--I'd consider your links a good deed done for a Brother!

I do agree with Maldev-some of what I read is questionable in my own mind, BUT it does get you thinking about how you ride, and react, and that is a good thing.

Just thinking, and don't know if it would be appropriate or not, but has any one ever considered inviting an MSF instructor to an IIRA rally? Not to give the course, but to maybe hold a short demonstration, and Q+A?

Might be an idea for Branson.

Thanks again!

(OK--I have to admit--I agree with him on the helmets--Kansas doesn't require but I still wear it. All you have to do is go down hard one time in your life, and just look at it when it's all over. Made a believer out of me 30 years ago.)

I should have left that out--ducking and heading for cover now!!

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A perfect example is entering an intersection with a car next to you.  

Maldev, you and I definitely agree on that one.   And more people do need to look at the safety and technique information on that site.  Hell, if you go to the Home link, you can look at babes, most of which 02isr would allow on his bike whether naked or not, read about an accident and recovery, or get to more links.

The point as I said, wasn't to join their forum, it was to get information to people before they learn it the hard way.  Like #7:  Dumping a bike isn't a sin, but ending up under it is.  or 44:  Trailer hitch fundamentals.  Especially 165:  Passengers are NOT helpless.

I mean, when is the last time any of us thought to talk to our passengers about what they should do if we pass out for some reason?

Extra info certainly never hurts.  Not that I'm going to rush right out and put my bike on its side in the grass to work on picking it up, mind you.

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We could still do a lot better, if you ask me.

True, true.

I think one thing we should do is do a better job of planning our ride routes and possibly even having the lead team run them the weekend prior to make certain of road conditions and detours.

Still, for seat-of-our-pants leadershp and ability to take care of our own, I think we've done a pretty good job.

 

Falcon1, like I said.  I completely agree with you.  more people should go to that site and as KC said, if it gets them to think about the situations mentioned, all the better.

I know a lot of people that saw my Scout after the wreck were amazed I didn't take any damage.  In the few split seconds in the middle of the accident, that seemed to last forever but I couldn't do anything fast enough, I had a clear enough mind to kick my legs up and over the bike so that when we hit, I was on top of the bike.  I also managed to kick the bike forward and push me away so that when it hit the curb and concrete barricade, I was nowhere near it.

 

Anything that gets riders to question every situation on the road without fearing leaving their garage is ok in my book.

 

And KC, I'm with you on the helmets.  Indiana didnt have a helmet law when I lived there but I still wore my helmet...and not a skid lid either.

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Foosh I love your new Avatar - oops I was ditracted and T-boned a bus!!!!!

 

Seriously....  MSF course is the way to go.  I took it as a "new rider" (new again after uhhhhhh... 25 or 30 something years....) in August of 2002.  I have spoken to lots of guys that rode all their lives and took the course and were shocked at how much they didn't know.  Awareness, evasive manuevers, technuiques learned from years of technology study in racing and other areas are what you get - valuable stuff. The course saved my life - yes my life - at least 5 times - many during my cross country adventure in Winter 2002.  One most memorable in Houston involving 3 tractor trailers turning sideways in their lanes, construction zones, locked wheels, blue smoke - and no need for coffee the rest of the day - just lots of toilet tissue.

 

NEVER have a second thought about referring anyone to article anywhere that might stick in their head when they are in that "hot moment" - you just may save a life.

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Hell, we can add a few things to his site.  

Blackdog can appeal to his commong sense that if you wear a helmet and baseball cap underneath, make certain the cap does not have a button on the top.  In his crash, this did some damage to Dave's scalp and I know he wears caps without buttons now (or at least rips them off).

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We could still do a lot better, if you ask me.

True, true.

I think one thing we should do is do a better job of planning our ride routes and possibly even having the lead team run them the weekend prior to make certain of road conditions and detours.

Still, for seat-of-our-pants leadershp and ability to take care of our own, I think we've done a pretty good job.

Great idea there Robert.

 

I agree that do take care of our own pretty well. And we take care of other people too, at times. :nod:

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We could still do a lot better, if you ask me.

True, true.

I think one thing we should do is do a better job of planning our ride routes and possibly even having the lead team run them the weekend prior to make certain of road conditions and detours.

Still, for seat-of-our-pants leadershp and ability to take care of our own, I think we've done a pretty good job.

Great idea there Robert.

 

I agree that do take care of our own pretty well. And we take care of other people too, at times. :nod:

And some in our group just need to be "taken care of"

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We could still do a lot better, if you ask me.

True, true.

I think one thing we should do is do a better job of planning our ride routes and possibly even having the lead team run them the weekend prior to make certain of road conditions and detours.

Still, for seat-of-our-pants leadershp and ability to take care of our own, I think we've done a pretty good job.

Great idea there Robert.

 

I agree that do take care of our own pretty well. And we take care of other people too, at times. :nod:

And some in our group just need to be "taken care of"

:nod:  :eyebrow:  :ooh2:

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Although I've never taken an MSF course, I entrusted Cynder to their capable hands, and have NO DOUBT it's been an excellent investment.  I now have FUN with her on our rides...and don't have to worry about her so much.  This seems like a good thread to share something that happened to us a few weeks ago:

 

We had just left Kimo and Deb in Ranco Santa Margarita, and decided to go to the beach for a late dinner in Dana Point.  Speed limit on OSO is 50, and there was NO traffic, so I pulled along side her in the next lane to help with my brights.  I'm checking out her riding style, and figuring out if I should raise her bike up an inch or so, when all of the sudden, over both pipes, I hear her SCREAM   :(  at the top of her lungs...S T O P !!!!!!!!!!

:bomb:

 

Just ahead of us, on a dark stretch of road in the middle of suburbia, the headlights caught a glisten of what looked like broken glass in the road.  We came to a FAST stop, as we realized what we were looking at was a downed eucalyptus tree...AND an ornate city light pole...spread across both lanes.

 

We pulled the bikes up on the sidewalk to shine our lights on the hazard and called 9-1-1.  I quickly tore off my belt, and drug the light pole, along with the tree to the side of the road.  There was still a shit load of thick glass and concrete chunks that we couldn't get all of before the cars started coming.  We saw at least 3 cars lose their tires that night, and slowly limp to the side of the road.  When the fat, worthless cop finally got there, he simply pulled his cruiser into the bike lane, no lights, no SPOTLIGHTS, or anything.  He said something like "doesn't look that bad...", and proceeded to tell us we shouldn't have our bikes on the sidewalk, while he calmly called for the city to clean up the mess.  :no:

 

ANYHOW, I'm quite content with the MSF course, and will be doing the intermediate class with my wife.  Incidentally, we ran into an MSF instructor at a local burger joint and talked to him about coming out for a meeting.  He is some kind of corporate manager there, and said they've been doing that to spread the word (and business cards) around for awhile now.

 

I've got his card somewhere.

 

:wave:

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Got this off that MSG site. Hmmm it seems that it is always someone else's responsibility to look out for others stupidity.

 

It seems to me that when you put upwards of $20,000 into a motorcycle someone should tell you how to keep it functional and safe. Come on this is a joke right?  If someone does not know how to take a bike in for regular maintenance check ups or do the check ups them selves then they need to spend that money on getting their head examaned. Or have a good ass kicking  

Someone should tell you that you should clean the dead bugs off your forks when you get back from a ride to save your fork seals. Now this one is a no brainer!! If you are spending that kind of money on a bike then you better keep it clean and looking good!!! other wise you need a good ass kicking  Someone should tell you how to dump the bike without ending up under it. Hmmm that is like telling someone how to skydive untill you do it you won't learn how. Tell them buy a dirt bike find a larg field with lots of cow shit and small holes. then they will learn Someone should teach you how to manage a passenger. This is something that is learned through experince.  kind of like driving in snow and ice And someone should teach you that you need to have the spline gear greased every 12,000 miles, whether you need to replace your rear tire or not. does this not fall under the regular maintenance rule?

 

 

I do agree somewhat with this statment, however one can talk till they are blue in the face and a person will never understand or learn untill they get out there and get some experince

These things are not the stuff of an MSF class. These are the things that experienced riders share with each other. So, here we are - sharing.

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That's why we have you here, Mongo.
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If you are spending that kind of money ona bike then you better keep it clean and looking good!!! other wise you need a good ass kicking

:shocked:

 

Looks like Lunchbox is in trouble.

 

Well, I can also attest the MSF is a great way to go.  My wife got back on her bike this past weekend after 6 years (and also having retaken the course within the last few months) and she did great.  First time back on the bike, on the freeway, riding in a group, riding at night and riding up Maldev's Hill o' Death.  She did a fine job.

I was asked why I didn't follow her on the road down to Danny & Mary's as I was the obviously more experienced rider.  And this is a point that I think should also be added to this site.

I led my wife for several reasons.

1.  I know the roads.  Certainly road conditions change, but certain parts don't such as concrete plate separations.  I told her to follow my path and she would be fine.  I would be maintaining a constant speed, something beginning rider usually have problem with and would be taking the easiest path for the road, conditions and traffic.  In my opinion, that takes a lot of responsibility and distractions away from a beginning rider.  Also, I can cut the proper riding path so she can follow.  Her uncertainty is diminished in trying to find the proper raide path.  She knows she can faithfully follow my route an be safe and enjoy the ride.  Hell, if I can cut the corner on my 99 Chief with her low floor boards, any other motorcycle should be able to follow without question.  This also helped her when it came to entry and exit speeds on the corner.  She could follow my lead and know she'll get in and out of the corner safely.

2.  I am far more experienced when looking for road debris that may affect the ride path.  Simple enough I would think.  How many beginning riders do you know that can avoid a La-z-boy sitting in the middle lane of the 210 at 70mph at dusk running through the Valley of the Dirt People?  I'd rather be there first and be able to correctly and quickly identify the chair as a problem instead of a shadow.

3.  I know the route.  It's bad enough when you are in cage trying to find directions to a new place let alone doing it on a bike.  I have more experience memorizing the route and being able to palm a miniature set of instructions that I can check when stopped.

4.  I can deal with traffic better.  The beginning rider usually likes to sit in the right hand lane.  In my experience, that make them deal with far more traffic than they need to with exits, on ramps and merging traffic.  By leading her, I kept in a reasonably safe area, at a safe speed with the traffic, where she could concentrate on riding and not dodging cars.

5.  Her attention was pointing forward, where it should be and not checking her mirros for me.  The ride put her in the practise of looking forward and checking her mirrors for cars and not for me or my reactions to her riding, which is the most important thing in my opinion, especially on the freeways.  She learned to watch the traffic, but was far less concerned about being judged on her riding skills by my constant attention on her.  I asked her about this and she agreed it did put her at ease knowing that I was guiding her through what could have been some difficult areas.  In following me, she felt she saw a good example of what she should be doing and that's important.

 

So that's my take on leading a new rider.  Any other thoughts?  I'd like to keep this thread going and growing with more ideas and pointers.

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So that's my take on leading a new rider.  Any other thoughts?  I'd like to keep this thread going and growing with more ideas and pointers.

Those are all good point, Robert.  Though, each couple is gonna have their strengths and weaknesses.  Cynder sees much better than I do, for instance.  I trust her vision of the road ahead of us, much better than mine.  Likewise, I trust my ability to keep a large truck from tailgating or side-swiping her.  Her bike (while cleaner), is much tougher to spot on the road from behind.  

:shocked:  I do believe I'm crowning now, so I must go...

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