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I have seen some posts that are looking for some Indian Production Numbers and thought I would chime in...

 

As some of you may know, I have owned an Indian Dealership for three generations of owners. I also was a Director during a spell at Kings Mountain and was tasked with various duties. I have also been collecting Indian Motorcycles for over 30 years. During my adventure and because I am obsessed with this brand much like many of you, I save things... Lot's of things.

 

I may hate myself by opening this door due to the constraints on my time, but I would be willing to share some specific data with the fellows that own Gilroy bikes. I have the VIN, original owner and specific information about every bike built from 1999 to 2002. If you have a Silver Cloud, I can and will confirm that along with any of the 'special editions'. As we all know what happened in '03, it actually did not happen overnight and record keeping was sloppy to say the least for late '02 and into '03. Below you can see some of the data I have access to. What I will require before providing any data is that you need to share proof of ownership with me and I will supply you with all the data on your bike that I have. Contact me via email only and with a copy of your registration or title. I do not want any personal information like your address, just proof of your VIN and your name associated with it, feel free to block out the rest.

 

Mike and various members of TC and I have talked about providing this information to paying members only, but I think it is time to pull the trigger on this for all Gilroy 'victims' if you are interested. You owe me nothing in return, your friendship and fellowship through the years is my compensation. Thank you.

 

Here is some of the data for the second and third eras (sort of) of our brand:

 

Gilroy Production Numbers

 

Special Models

Millennium Chief 252

Silver Cloud Chief 227

Centennial Chief 364

Centennial Scout 215

Neiman Marcus Chief 40

911 Spirit - w/Flag 70

T-3 52

Vintage Chief 655

 

Total Gilroy Production

1999 1109

2000 3616

2001 3856

2002 3278

2003 3900-4000 Estimated

 

Kings Mountain Production

 

2009 460

2010 340

2011 109

2012 * 140

2013 * 85 Total

LE Chiefs 35

FE Chiefs 25

Other 25

* Kings Mountain Designed and Polaris Built

 

Mark@IndianMotorcycleCharlotte.com

Edited by insaneindian
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One again the man takes that extra step.

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Nice... and again, assistance provide from a very well known special person to this community..

I will give it a shot, I know I have an '03.. just maybe you will have data on..

Email coming...

 

Thanks Mark!

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The numbers might be off on the 2000 total. My Vin # says different total

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Just so I'm not stepping on my D*ck The production Number is last 3 or 4 numbers in Vin.?

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Mark, awesome of you to provide this data. Definitely clears up questions many of us have had for quite some time!

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My 2000 is 300 more than the number!!! Special edition!!! :grin:

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All I know is my Scout is better than anyone else's Scout.

 

 

 

 

Screen%20Shot%202015-03-21%20at%2011.25.

 

Next to mine ! ! :grin:

 

:moped:

 

Dave

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As the 99 production run was supposed to be limited to 1100 bikes, I've always wondered about those last 9 bikes. Is there any general information you can share about them? Did they have production number tags like the other 1100? Stuff like that.

 

How did you manage to get that data? I was at the Gilroy garage sale and the records room was locked. Even so, I managed to find a couple of folders that outlined Gilroy's general marketing strategy for the first couple of years. Internal communiques and sign off lists for Gilroy executives and things of that ilk. I would have paid someone money to unlock that door.

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hummm 364 centennial chiefs and up to 382 accounted for , weird picture here .

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Agreed. However, I try to view the Got Centennial archive for what it is worth to me. A lot of years of labor but, in the end it's just dust in a motorcycle chat room to me.

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Hi Mark M. Interesting. There seems to be a problem with Got centennial archive. The issue begins right after cent chief 0364/2001 and continues to cent chief 0382/2001. These 'problem' units include badged bikes owned by some well regarded good old indian brothers. LOL.

 

Dare I mention, the comments by Don Nofrey [iMC dealer in Gilroy] on the forum circa 2007. The aforementioned comments were regarding competition issues between, limited Edition, Badge purchasers working within the IMCOA, Gilroy, factory. Plus, IMCOA made a rather confusing number of "" Limited Editions"". :)

 

No big issue to me. Just wanted to go on the record. :cheers:

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As with all things Indian, some things are not as they appear. Gilroy did not build VIN's in order whatsoever. There were many VIN numbers that were skipped completely and some of these 'never produced/manufactured' VIN's found their way on to 'other' bikes years after the shutdown in California. By other bikes, I mean choppers, stolen bikes, and others.

 

I have compiled and compared data for years on things that interest me. Ever hear of a 1969 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler II? It was a car that was built by Ford to homologate the use of this car for NASCAR racing. NASCAR required that 500 of these cars were built and offered for sale to the public before they could be raced. Ford submitted a list of VINs to NASCAR and even invited NASCAR's staff to view all the cars in one storage area. Ford excepted this 'data' and even the visual inspection, Guess what? NASCAR got duped, there was only 353 of these cars ever built, but there were some other cars built that just had paint the same color, but not the same 'aero car' at all. Geez, they had all the VINs and all that...

 

As with anything, crap in is crap out. No question in my mind that there will be and is exceptions to all of these numbers and any of this data is only as accurate as the person building the list was competent. I actually have two reasonably comprehensive internal lists, one is an end user list and the other,a production list.

 

What the lists do show is that most all of the limited editions VIN's bounce around with non-limited edition models built in the middle of the numerical 1-2-3-4 of what was assumed the VIN's would run. Some of the VINs also show that the color was TBD and some of the bikes were recorded as colors that never found their way to regular production bikes. Limited Edition bikes did not always start with one VIN and stop at another, even though that was expected or even intended to be built in that order.

 

Here is just one example of a wacky mix that ended up on one bike. A T3 Chief with a 2002 VIN? Same bike had a PP100 engine with serial number #(1). It was not the first PP Chief by a long shot by looking at the VIN. What we do know; It has a real 2002 VIN, is a real bike that shows in the records, but nothing else makes sense. Right? Actually, this was a real production Chief, not a non-VIN engineering bike. The factory retrofitted it with PP #I. The factory also used the bike as the prototype for the T3 paint. This bike was not really unique, there were many other similar bikes. So, what do we call or count this bike today? A T3? A Roadmaster? The first PP100? So, you can see how the list and the history gets muddy. I personally know this bike quite well. I also had an interesting Chief that Indian Gilroy factory gifted me to hang in the glass tower of my Toledo dealership, but that is a whole other story...

 

In my personal garage today, I have a production VIN 2002 Chief that also was used as an internal project. It was sent to an aftermarket exhaust manufacture in 2002 and never resurfaced until many years later and is a different color then the data decal on the bike, but still has the original sheet metal that the bike was shipped out with in 2002. My point to all this? All we really have is what we can see in the data and in an inspection of the actual bikes that are still left. It is entirely possible that some special edition bikes did not start out as one, and originally intended special edition bikes actually left the production line as a standard bike.

 

Two other quick points; 1) When KM started building bikes, the engine numbers matched the VIN, did anyone know that? As time went along and with any re-works or production delays, that all went away and the bikes were than produced as non-numbers matching. Intended to be built one way and a rolling change superseded the initial process. 2) KM bikes were built with sequential VIN's to start. The first bike was 00001 second 00002 and so on. That did not mean that the production date followed the same order. As a rolling change in later years, the VINs no longer started as 000001 each year, so you could not look at the VIN and say that VIN 000122 was the 122nd built bike. The Vintage numbering system also changed over time and instead of being as it was in 2009 that Vintage 001 was the first 2009 Vintage, the system was later changed in that the Vintage numbering actually carried on into the next model year. Again, exceptions to every rule.

 

Anyway, these two Gilroy lists combined have a lot of data that is of interest (maybe). To the best of my limited knowledge, it is more real data than has ever been available before. Best way to test it, is to do just what I offered, look bikes up on the list and see how we do. Happy to review any special edition lists that have been compiled to compare data. I have a feeling, we will all learn something.

 

If there is a list that has been compiled and is perfect and beyond reproach, don't waste your time with my offer to share.

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That sounds good to me, Mark. Your words hold a great deal of credibility. I got nothing compared to you.

 

 

Edit: BTW, I sent a PM to apologize to Mark M. [insaneindian] for my stupidity. I wanted to delete my stupid posts from above however, I was too late to use the delete feature.

Edited by me ride um Centennial
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Where does the 7 pink bikes fall that were built for a company in new york ?

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That sounds good to me, Mark. Your words hold a great deal of credibility. I got nothing compared to you.

You got nothing not compared to Mark... :grin:

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xx

Edited by me ride um Centennial
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Thanks for sharing your information. Mark.

 

cheers

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Thanks for sharing your information. Mark.

 

cheers

Hey Joey,

 

Responded to your PM and appreciate you taking the high road on this one. You are not such a dick after all...

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Hey Joey,

 

Responded to your PM and appreciate you taking the high road on this one. You are not such a dick after all...

Are you then sayin he's a pussy ?? :babyhaha:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I type with turrets :rauch08:

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