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Think about this before you vote.


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This is the truth. And history tends to repeat itself.

 

The problem is no matter which way you vote we are heading down this path. Both parties are in a drivers ed car... right or left they are both steering the same car down the same path.

 

In another thread I posted a description of the electoral college and it pretty much warns the same thing.

 

THINK ABOUT THIS AMERICA !  

THINK ABOUT THIS BEFORE YOU VOTE.

 

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinborough) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

 

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

 

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

 

>  From Bondage to spiritual faith;

>  From spiritual faith to great courage;

>  From courage to liberty;

>  From liberty to abundance;

>  From abundance to complacency;

>  From complacency to apathy;

>  From apathy to dependence;

>  From dependence back into bondage."

 

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent Presidential election:

 

>  Population of counties won by:

>  Gore=127 million

>  Bush=143 million

>

>  Square miles of land won by:

>  Gore=580,000

>  Bush=2,427,000

 

>  States won by:

>  Gore=19

>  Bush=29

 

>  Murder rate per 100,000  residents in counties won

> by:

>  Gore=13.2

>  Bush=2.1

 

Professor Olson adds:

"In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off government welfare..."

 

Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "complacency and "apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy; with some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

 

Pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake in this Election Year and that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.

:no:

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The person who wrote this is trying to show something by the numbers. Maybe trying to say Bush would be better or could stop us from going down this path. That is incorrect. The people outside the big cities are also getting things from our government that they should be getting on their own

 

Both parties are in a position where they have to buy their votes by GIVING to their followers.

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"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization,

it expects what never was and never will be."

Thomas Jefferson, 1816.

 

 

REPUBLIC vs. DEMOCRACY

 

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

 

In the Pledge of Allegiance we all pledge allegiance to our Republic, not to a democracy. "Republic" is the proper description of our government, not "democracy." I invite you to join me in raising public awareness regarding that distinction.

 

The distinction between our Republic and a democracy is not an idle one. It has great legal significance.

 

The Constitution guarantees to every state a Republican form of government (Art. 4, Sec. 4). No state may join the United States unless it is a Republic. Our Republic is one dedicated to "liberty and justice for all." Minority individual rights are the priority. The people have natural rights instead of civil rights. The people are protected by the Bill of Rights from the majority. One vote in a jury can stop all of the majority from depriving any one of the people of his rights; this would not be so if the United States were a democracy. (see People's rights vs Citizens' rights)

 

In a pure democracy 51 beats 49[%]. In a democracy there is no such thing as a significant minority: there are no minority rights except civil rights (privileges) granted by a condescending majority. Only five of the U.S. Constitution's first ten amendments apply to Citizens of the United States. Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Socrates was executed by a democracy: though he harmed no one, the majority found him intolerable.

 

 

SOME DICTIONARY DEFINITIONS

Government. ....the government is but an agency of the state, distinguished as it must be in accurate thought from its scheme and machinery of government. ....In a colloquial sense, the United States or its representatives, considered as the prosecutor in a criminal action; as in the phrase, "the government objects to the witness." [black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, p. 625]

 

Government; Republican government. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated. In re Duncan, 139 U.S. 449, 11 S.Ct. 573, 35 L.Ed. 219; Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. (21 Wall.) 162, 22 L.Ed. 627. [black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, p. 626]

 

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, pp. 388-389.

 

Note: Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, can be found in any law library and most law offices.

 

 

COMMENTS

Notice that in a Democracy, the sovereignty is in the whole body of the free citizens. The sovereignty is not divided to smaller units such as individual citizens. To solve a problem, only the whole body politic is authorized to act. Also, being citizens, individuals have duties and obligations to the government. The government's only obligations to the citizens are those legislatively pre-defined for it by the whole body politic.

 

In a Republic, the sovereignty resides in the people themselves, whether one or many. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives as he chooses to solve a problem. Further, the people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government being hired by the people, is obliged to its owner, the people.

 

The people own the government agencies. The government agencies own the citizens. In the United States we have a three-tiered cast system consisting of people ---> government agencies ---> and citizens.

 

The people did "ordain and establish this Constitution," not for themselves, but "for the United States of America." In delegating powers to the government agencies the people gave up none of their own. (See Preamble of U.S. Constitution). This adoption of this concept is why the U.S. has been called the "Great Experiment in self government." The People govern themselves, while their agents (government agencies) perform tasks listed in the Preamble for the benefit of the People. The experiment is to answer the question, "Can self-governing people coexist and prevail over government agencies that have no authority over the People?"

 

The citizens of the United States are totally subject to the laws of the United States (See 14th Amendment of U.S. Constitution). NOTE: U.S. citizenship did not exist until July 28, 1868.

 

Actually, the United States is a mixture of the two systems of government (Republican under Common Law, and democratic under statutory law). The People enjoy their God-given natural rights in the Republic. In a democracy, the Citizens enjoy only government granted privileges (also known as civil rights).

 

There was a great political division between two major philosophers, Hobbes and Locke. Hobbes was on the side of government. He believed that sovereignty was vested in the state. Locke was on the side of the People. He believed that the fountain of sovereignty was the People of the state. Statists prefer Hobbes. Populists choose Locke. In California, the Government Code sides with Locke. Sections 11120 and 54950 both say, "The people of this State do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies which serve them." The preambles of the U.S. and California Constitutions also affirm the choice of Locke by the People.

 

It is my hope that the U.S. will always remain a Republic, because I value individual freedom.

 

Thomas Jefferson said that liberty and ignorance cannot coexist.* Will you help to preserve minority rights by fulfilling the promise in the Pledge of Allegiance to support the Republic? Will you help by raising public awareness of the difference between the Republic and a democracy?

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Many of you have seen the reprint of this document. If you have, it's worth reading again. If you have not, it is worth reading, studying, and reciting to your friends, family, and neighbors. It is copied from Training Manual No. 2000-25 that was published by the then War Department, Washington, D.C., November 30, 1928.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------

Official Definition of DEMOCRACY

 

NOTE

 

Here are four (4) facsimile section reproductions taken from a 156 page book officially compiled and issued by the U.S. War Department, November 30,1928, setting forth exact and truthful definitions of a Democracy and of a Republic, explaining the difference between both. These definitions were published by the authority of the United States Government and must be accepted as authentic in any court of proper jurisdiction. These precise and scholarly definitions of a Democracy and a Republic were carefully considered as a proper guide for U.S. soldiers and U.S. citizens by the Chief of Staff of the United States Army. Such definition stake precedence over any "definition" that may be found in the present commercial dictionaries which have suffered periodical "modification" to please "the powers in office. Shortly after the "bank holiday" in the thirties, hush-hush orders from the White House suddenly demanded that all copies of this book be withdrawn from the Government Printing Office and the Army posts, to be suppressed and destroyed without explanation. This was the beginning of the complete red control of the Government from within, not from without.

 

-------------------

 

Prepared under the direction of the Chief of Staff.

 

CITIZENSHIP

 

This manual supersedes Manual of Citizenship Training The use of the publication "The Constitution of the United States," by Harry Atwood, is by permission and courtesy of the author.

 

CITIZENSHIP Democracy:

 

A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic--negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether is be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy

 

CITIZENSHIP Republic:

 

Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass. Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress. Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world. A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of

 

(1) an executive and (2) a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation, all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create (3) a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their government acts and to recognize (4) certain inherent individual rights.

 

Take away any one or more of those four elements and you are drifting into autocracy. Add one or more to those four elements and you are drifting into democracy.

 

Atwood. Superior to all others.--Autocracy declares the divine right of kings; its authority can not be questioned; its powers are arbitrarily or unjustly administered. Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success. Our Constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican form of government. They "made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy * * * and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic."

 

"By order of the Secretary of War: C.P. Summerall, Major General, Chief of Staff. Official: Lutz Wahl, Major General, The Adjutant General.

 

WHY DEMOCRACIES FAIL

 

A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.(Written by Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, nearly two centuries ago while our thirteen original states were still colonies of Great Britain. At the time he was writing of the decline and fall of the Athenian Republic over two thousand years before.

 

"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive."

 

Westbrook Pegler: New York Journal American, January 25th and 26th, 1951, under the titles- Upholds Republic of U.S. Against Phony Democracy, Democracy in the U.S. Branded Meaningless

 

Order original from:

 

Americans For Constitutional Government

P.O. Box 7012

Watchung, N.J. 07060

(201) 753-7347

 

"This idea that government was beholden to the people, that it had no other source of power is still the newest, most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man. This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American Revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves."

 

Ronald Reagan's Speech at the 1964 National Convention: A Time for Choosing

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I would bet the majority of Chief riders are Republican -

 

Scout riders are Democrats -

 

And Spirit riders are cross-dressing Independents...

 

Thanks, Danny

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Think about this before you vote.

 

http://www.525reasons.com/

Funny, I bring up a topic of how our State is changing and you go into bash Bush mode. That has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

Are you so blind as not to see that neither party has the good of the United States in mind. They only care for their power. Who you elect will not matter in the long run. The elites on both "sides" will remain in power as we give ours away.

 

But sheep are always easy to lead to slaughter.

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In any government, the Elite rule the Masses - always.  You can put any face, any title, call it whatever you want - in the end the few with the power make the decisions affecting the masses without.

 

Religion is a fine example of the Elite ruling the Masses.  Government anywhere is no different - some are simply more just or have the appearance of being just.

 

True Liberty and Freedom require the absence of Security as Freedom and Security are mutally exclusive states of existance.  Thus anyone that promises freedom and security must not be telling the whole truth.

 

Not to hack on Bush, but reading Last Resort's posts on the difference between Democracy and Republic makes it all the more amusing to recall his (Bush's) pledge to 'export democracy'.

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Think about this before you vote.

 

http://www.525reasons.com/

Funny, I bring up a topic of how our State is changing and you go into bash Bush mode. That has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

Are you so blind as not to see that neither party has the good of the United States in mind. They only care for their power. Who you elect will not matter in the long run. The elites on both "sides" will remain in power as we give ours away.

 

But sheep are always easy to lead to slaughter.

I think by now you should know that NO person who has EVER run for office has anyone else's interest in mind.

 

The majority of politics are all about themselves.

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Think about this before you vote.

 

http://www.525reasons.com/

Funny, I bring up a topic of how our State is changing and you go into bash Bush mode. That has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

Are you so blind as not to see that neither party has the good of the United States in mind. They only care for their power. Who you elect will not matter in the long run. The elites on both "sides" will remain in power as we give ours away.

 

But sheep are always easy to lead to slaughter.

I think by now you should know that NO person who has EVER run for office has anyone else's interest in mind.

 

The majority of politics are all about themselves.

Ever is a big word.

 

Not true. The easiest one to come to mind it George Washington; if he only had his interest in mind this would be a much different country then it is now. There are several who obviously put the country in front of themselves… in front of the people. The people of the country do not always have the best interest of the country at mind

 

I would have to agree that MANY are the way you describe, but to say all is historically incorrect.

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During a college history class (many years ago) a professor offered his opinion that almost every great society throughout history decayed from within...Very few were overrun by outside forces.  Being 20 years old and the smartest guy in the world I challenged him so he sent me on a quest to prove my point.  Anyway after a little research I realized that I WAS WRONG, HE WAS RIGHT!  It seems that over time, in a free society, people's perceptions of freedom become so perverted that eventually they lose the ability to judge between right and wrong.  Anytime a devious behavior or malicious act toward society is challenged now it's met with the phrase "you're violating my rights" and it's allowed to stand.  This goes way beyond religion or gay rights or racial equality.  It's bigger than a guy sticking a Crucifix in a glass of urine and calling it art.  Our society is flat out accepting sick behavior as "allowed by our rights as Americans."  We've got groups out in the open now that espouse relationships between Grown men and little boys!  They produce a fuckin' newsletter!  Rapists are allowed to destroy the reputations of those they raped on national TV, and the press LOVES it.  We make murderers and complete Perverts into national Icons (Scott Peterson, Michael Jackson.) My 12 year old daughter gets to see lesbian scenes at 8PM on network TV, or Janet Jackson's tit during the Super Bowl halftime show.  We're swimming in a cesspool and eventually it will become too polluted to survive in.  Most of this country has forgotten the cardinal rule of freedom...with rights come responsibilities.  You just can't have one without the other.

:veryangry:

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During a college history class (many years ago) a professor offered his opinion that almost every great society throughout history decayed from within...Very few were overrun by outside forces.  Being 20 years old and the smartest guy in the world I challenged him so he sent me on a quest to prove my point.  Anyway after a little research I realized that I WAS WRONG, HE WAS RIGHT!  It seems that over time, in a free society, people's perceptions of freedom become so perverted that eventually they lose the ability to judge between right and wrong.  Anytime a devious behavior or malicious act toward society is challenged now it's met with the phrase "you're violating my rights" and it's allowed to stand.  This goes way beyond religion or gay rights or racial equality.  It's bigger than a guy sticking a Crucifix in a glass of urine and calling it art.  Our society is flat out accepting sick behavior as "allowed by our rights as Americans."  We've got groups out in the open now that espouse relationships between Grown men and little boys!  They produce a fuckin' newsletter!  Rapists are allowed to destroy the reputations of those they raped on national TV, and the press LOVES it.  We make murderers and complete Perverts into national Icons (Scott Peterson, Michael Jackson.) My 12 year old daughter gets to see lesbian scenes at 8PM on network TV, or Janet Jackson's tit during the Super Bowl halftime show.  We're swimming in a cesspool and eventually it will become too polluted to survive in.  Most of this country has forgotten the cardinal rule of freedom...with rights come responsibilities.  You just can't have one without the other.

:veryangry:

Take cover, the world is coming to its end!!

 

If me and this asshole agree something bad is going to happen :lookaround2:

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Ajsam I think you got it right on the morality issue.  Perceptions of freedom and its decline or perversion in America these days.

 

Just Re read Lstrst's tag line.........

 

The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum.

Whenever evil wins, it is only by default:

by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles.

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Ajsam I think you got it right on the morality issue.  Perceptions of freedom and its decline or perversion in America these days.

 

Just Re read Lstrst's tag line.........

 

The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum.

Whenever evil wins, it is only by default:

by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles.

And believe it or not, that quote came from a devout atheist.

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During a college history class

Hold on a second? YOU  :shocked:  went to College?

 

Are you sure it wasn't continuation sckool  ???

I said I took a class, I didn't say I graduated!!

:rotfl:

Now that explains it!

:idea31:

I guess I know what to do the next time you say something stupid. I will challange you to prove it and then you will see I am right!!

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Some see Religion and Atheism as causes of our moral dilemma; I disagree.  I myself am Catholic, I have friends of all religious faiths and a few who are atheists.  The fix to this moral problem is simple.  A person doesn't have to believe in God, or Buddah, Or Allah or any higher power...A person just has to STOP believing that he or she is the most important fucking being on planet earth and expecting everyone else to buy into it!  Heres' my short list of sick fucks who need to depart planet earth on a Chartered Shuttle, one way trip, destination unknown:

 

Michael Jackson

Scott Peterson

Kobe Bryant

NAMBLA Members (North American Man Boy Love Association) yeah, it's a real group

Perverted Priests

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You forgot:

 

The rest of the Jackson family including

 

Jesse Jackson

 

Troglodyte/Samauri

 

Michael Moore

 

Barbra Striesand and the rest of The Eliteists (sp)

 

This list could go on and on...............

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