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Kerry-war hero?


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On June 1, 2004, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth sent a cease and desist letter to John Kerry for President, Inc. on behalf of 11 officers shown in the photograph, pointing out that using their images in a campaign advertisement "wrongfully and incorrectly suggests their present endorsement of his candidacy."

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Thanks for the link. I don't think the california left will let this air out here. At least I haven't seen it.

 

Hey.... who doesn't like a little Bush once in a while.

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The important point to note here is that this piece presents only one side of the story:

 

 

Although the men quoted above are often identified as "John Kerry's shipmates," only one of them, Steven Gardner, actually served under Lt. Kerry's command on a Swift boat. The other men who served under Kerry's command continue to speak positively of him:

 

"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.

 

"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life."3

 

— Fred Short

 

"I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos . . . Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.

 

I had to sit on my hands [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard . . . He went to every man on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's the mettle of the man, John Kerry."3

 

— David Alston

 

"What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."2

 

— James Wasser

Many of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and fellow officers also continue to speak positively of him:

 

Navy records, fitness reports by Kerry's commanders and scores of interviews with Swift boat officers and crewmen depict a model officer who fought aggressively in river ambushes and won the respect of many of his crewmates and commanders, even as his doubts about the war grew.

 

"I don't like what he said after the war," said Adrian Lonsdale, who commanded Kerry for three months in 1969. "But he was a good naval officer."2

 

 

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"I don't know what conclusions you can draw about someone's ability to lead from their combat experience, but John's service was commendable," said James J. Galvin, a former Swift boat officer . . . "He played by the same rules we all did."

 

Every coin has 2 sides..

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Doesn't Skip Barker have a driving school?

 

Or is he the host of "The Price Is Right"?

 

Thanks, Danny

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The important point to note here is that this piece presents only one side of the story:

 

 

Although the men quoted above are often identified as "John Kerry's shipmates," only one of them, Steven Gardner, actually served under Lt. Kerry's command on a Swift boat. The other men who served under Kerry's command continue to speak positively of him:

 

"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.

 

"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life."3

 

— Fred Short

 

"I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos . . . Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.

 

I had to sit on my hands [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard . . . He went to every man on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's the mettle of the man, John Kerry."3

 

— David Alston

 

"What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."2

 

— James Wasser

Many of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and fellow officers also continue to speak positively of him:

 

Navy records, fitness reports by Kerry's commanders and scores of interviews with Swift boat officers and crewmen depict a model officer who fought aggressively in river ambushes and won the respect of many of his crewmates and commanders, even as his doubts about the war grew.

 

"I don't like what he said after the war," said Adrian Lonsdale, who commanded Kerry for three months in 1969. "But he was a good naval officer."2

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"I don't know what conclusions you can draw about someone's ability to lead from their combat experience, but John's service was commendable," said James J. Galvin, a former Swift boat officer . . . "He played by the same rules we all did."

 

Every coin has 2 sides..

While he had one of his buddy's take pics with  his camera!,Kerry Teddy whats the fucking difference?

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I have been to the "swiftvets" site many times. And it is nothing more than Propaganda.

 

How could anyone take something like that seriously?

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I have been to the "swiftvets" site many times. And it is nothing more than Propaganda.

 

How could anyone take something like that seriously?

Sounds more like Kerry you are talking about! :rasp:

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Not True, NPR had a story Monday morning about the site and the ad they are running.

 

It basically said that most of those vets served with Kerry, but not on his swift boat nor under his command.

 

The one debatable point that cannot be proved according to the story was that Kerry did pull a wounded soldier out of the water under enemy sniper fire, however the claim that the sniper was yards away may not be true. Some claim the enemy fire was hundreds of yards away, thus a heroic act yes. Life threatening probably not.

 

At least he saw action, even if it was only for a few months. Bush similiar to Clinton found a way around the war altogether and now he controls the most powerful army in the world.

 

Actually Bush doesn't bother me so much it's those guys around him, Cheney, Rumsfield, Ashcroft...

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If Kerry would open his military records everyone would see under what circumsatnces he recieved his medals. What's the probelm with that? And why doesn't he talk about his voting record in the Senate? He's been at it for 20 some years. You would think there has to be something positive in that time.

Anyone can claim to do a better job, but let's see what he's really done.

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Not True, NPR had a story Monday morning about the site and the ad they are running.

 

It basically said that most of those vets served with Kerry, but not on his swift boat nor under his command.

 

The one debatable point that cannot be proved according to the story was that Kerry did pull a wounded soldier out of the water under enemy sniper fire, however the claim that the sniper was yards away may not be true. Some claim the enemy fire was hundreds of yards away, thus a heroic act yes. Life threatening probably not.

 

At least he saw action, even if it was only for a few months. Bush similiar to Clinton found a way around the war altogether and now he controls the most powerful army in the world.

 

Actually Bush doesn't bother me so much it's those guys around him, Cheney, Rumsfield, Ashcroft...

NPR? LOL.

 

Swift boats do not work alone, they work in teams. Just because someone is not on the same boat does not mean they did not work together.

 

The swift boats went out on missions in groups of threes, and the rest of the time they were based and bunked together. While on missions, they were usually not that far apart; so, these guys would have a fairly intimate knowledge of Kerry. Much more so than if two men served on different destroyers or aircraft carriers.

 

If Kerry is as proud as he claims to be of his military career why will he not release his records? He is the only one holding them back. It would be simple for him to sign the document and get past this; if he has nothing to hide.

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I believe Kerry saved the guy from the water, whether or not he was in imminent danger , I dont know, but the guy who was saved thanks him, thats good enough fo me!

 

The whole issue of his service , is pretty weak , 4 months? How many guys in Iraq , have left the service with four months and a bronze star ,3 purple hearts to go with it? I am gonna go out on a limb and here and say.............................................NONE!

 

Kerry came home from Vietnam talking about atrocities that his fellow comrads had committed (later he said he committed as well) , He embellishes the fact (I say fact loosely talking abot Kerry) , that he spent time behind enemy lines in Cambodia , which has been refuted , and here is a real fact , information regarding "secret or clandestine activites" during the war with Vietnam have not been declassifed as of today ! John Kerry has know problem committing acts of treason , as it seems!

 

You know getting a piece of ass from Jane Fonda , wouldnt have been to bad , but following her ideology and endangering the live of American servicemen was very bad judgement at the very least!

 

Im sorry , but Kerrys credibility IS AT ISSUE in the election !

 

I could go on and on about his exploits , true and makebelieve, but I wont . In closing does Bush have faults , yes he does , he's Goddamn religeous for one, All wars start and end over religeous beliefs , Iraq and Afganistan are no different!

 

The winner will be Bush , Kerrys less believable than Al Gore (and that says alot) , Lieberman was the democrats best chance , a man with true conviction and insight and a hell of alot more partisan , but it just goes to show how education levels can determin outcomes of elections!

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It basically said that most of those vets served with Kerry, but not on his swift boat nor under his command.

Ya know, the way to think about it is like a fire department. There are several trucks with different groups of men assigned to the trucks. They live together and work together even if some are on the hook and ladder, some are on the pump, some are on the rescue trucks and some on tanker trucks. They know about and have valid opinions about those they work with... even if not assigined to the same truck as the other person.

 

They do not say these people did not work or fight with Kerry, just that they may not have been on the same boat.

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Wrong. Most wars purport to be fought for religious reasons, but a review of history shows that this is, in reality, merely a way to motivate the general populus. All wars are fought for land. If the terrorists had stayed off of our land, we would not be in Iraq right now. The arab culture is an incredibly brutal one. They understand only brute force. Any other method is interpeted by them as weakness. This show of strength by the USA has already begun to bear fruit. Witness Libia's repudiation of their WMD programs. Will they try to continue them is secret? Of course. But they have, for the moment, put them on hold. They don't want to be next on our list.

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Iron Mike,

 

I gave up on educating people about the myth of most wars being religious. They choose to follow the “truth” as purported by the University elites.

 

“History and facts be Dammed!! I choose to believe what I know is right, and I know it is right because I feel it in my heart.”

 

As a History Teacher at a Junior college I challenge my classes to think about the following:

 

Religion has caused more suffering, wars and violence than any other cause.

 

Almost all the students agree. I then ask that they prove this by the number of people killed. They usually mention the Crusades and one or two other religious wars they might have heard of but in none of their examples can they come up with a million deaths. (Some experts used to teach that the Thirty Years’ War in Germany caused 8 million deaths, but modern experts have proved that it was more like 200 thousand and in fact the population of Germany actually increased during that war.) I then point out that most of the people who have died as a result of war, have done so in the Twentieth Century and that most of the killing was done in the name of secular (not religious) beliefs. I then ask them who is the worst of them all. Most guess Hitler. I then tell them that he is rated #3. Some then guess Stalin and I tell them that most experts place him at #2 with 20 million killed. Almost no one gets #1 who ... , of course ... , is Mao who starts with an estimated 40 million. I then point out that the top two were Communists and Hitler was a radical believer in Social Darwinism. All of these are based on atheistic beliefs.

 

(FYI)

 

The Spanish Inquisition;

How it started:

 

  The Turks (Muslim Turks) in 1480 attacked the south Italian city of Otranto. 12,000 people were killed, the rest made slaves. The Turks killed every cleric in the city and sawed the archbishop in two. So Queen Isabel sent a fleet to Italy. In September of 1480, when it was clear the Turks might do the same to any coastal city, King Ferdinand V and Queen Isabella established the Inquisition. It dealt with the special problem of those who pretended to become Christians, but were not really converted, and might open the gates of the city to the Turks.

 

  During this period the West was in danger of following the fate of Constantinople and falling under the sword of Islam. Indeed Protestant and Catholic princes joined forces against the threat and at one point the Turkish armies were at the gates of Vienna.

 

  Otherwise, the modern nations of Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia, 16 miles away from Spain, formed part of a vast imperial system established by the Muslim Turks, a system as powerful and menacing to western Europe as the Soviet bloc was conceived to be in our day.

 

  It was under this threat that the Pope Sixtus IV authorized the Spanish Inquisition in 1478 if it should be needed. The kings of Spain, Isabella and Ferdinand, instituted it two years later. The specific threat that the Inquisition faced was the "conversos." Spain had been freed form Islamic control for only a few generations, after 800 years of oppression... and not completely, because Islam still ruled in Granada up to 1492.

 

  The Spanish Inquisition was independent of the Medieval Inquisition. It was established by Ferdinand and Isabella with the reluctant approval of Sixtus IV. It was entirely controlled by the Spanish kings, and the pope's only hold over it was in naming the inquisitor general chosen by the kings. The popes were never reconciled to the institution, which they regarded as usurping a church prerogative.    

 

 The Spanish Inquisition had no authority over practicing Muslims and Jews, only over professed Christians suspected of being fakes and a threat to the country... it remained operative in Spain into the nineteenth century. Originally called into being against secret Islam and secret Judaism, it served also to repel Protestantism in the sixteenth century, but was unable to expel French Rationalism and immorality of the eighteenth... it also took some action against witchcraft though it was very limited compared with the 30,000 witches burned in England and the 100,000 in Germany.

 

  It was a state institution used to identify conversos, mainly Muslims (Moors, Moros), and Jews (Marranos), who falsely "converted" to Christianity and secretly practiced their former religion. Its job was also, and more importantly, to clear the good name of many people who were falsely accused.

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"Istanbul" 1953

 

Words by Jimmy Kennedy

Music by Nat Simon

 

"It's Istanbul, not Constantinople now ...." Leave it to Tin Pan Alley to turn centuries of ethnic and religious struggles into a catchy ditty. This song, although copyrighted by Kennedy and Simon, is a direct descendant of the humourous piece, "Al-Bar the Bubul Emir" that could be found in the pages of "Captain Billy's Whizbang," an early 20th century precursor to "Mad Magazine."

 

Lyrics:

 

Istanbul was Constantinople

Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

 

Every gal in Constantinople

Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople

So if you've a date in Constantinople

She'll be waiting in Istanbul

 

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam

Why they changed it I can't say

People just liked it better that way

 

So take me back to Constantinople

No, you can't go back to Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Why did Constantinople get the works

That's nobody's business but the Turks

 

Istanbul (Istanbul)

Istanbul (Istanbul)

 

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam

Why they changed it I can't say

People just liked it better that way

 

Istanbul was Constantinople

Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Why did Constantinople get the works

That's nobody's business but the Turks

 

So take me back to Constantinople

No, you can't go back to Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Why did Constantinople get the works

That's nobody's business but the Turks

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Speaking of morranos ... morons ... running for el presidente Kerry's 3 purple hearts in 4 months dont prove much except he was a consistently good target and a magnet for enemy fire...the Silver Star is not all that common and leads me to wonder if he didn't recommend himself for that one ... let's see what that 4 month war record says...Freedom of Information act should apply here - after all he is running for president is he not?????
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Speaking of morranos ... morons ... running for el presidente Kerry's 3 purple hearts in 4 months dont prove much except he was a consistently good target and a magnet for enemy fire...the Silver Star is not all that common and leads me to wonder if he didn't recommend himself for that one ... let's see what that 4 month war record says...Freedom of Information act should apply here - after all he is running for president is he not?????

You guys are a f-ing joke!! Do you know how hard it would be to get those records released?? Do you have any F-ING idea how many poeple have to sign off on that???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One, Kerry     :lookaround2:

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Kerry's 3 purple hearts in 4 months dont prove much except he was a consistently good target and a magnet for enemy fire...

Loco, unusual  perspective. Never thought of it that way.

 

Consistently Good Target for President....

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So why doesn't Georgie Boy release his war record with the air national guard. There is no proof he ever even showed up in the summer or fall of 72.

 

He was down in Alabama working on a senate campaign his daddy lined up for him, thats why.

 

Some other things...

 

John McCain has condemed the swift boat ad. Bush refuses to do that. 175,000 people have petitioned Bush to condemn this ad, Vietnam veterans have asked that he condemn it, and a large percentage of the republican party have asked he condemn it.

 

It is pretty sad that a guy who ran from the war of his generation and got away with it cause of his New England blood and rich daddy would have the audacity to question another veterans war record.

 

Remember guys, he ain't even a Texan.

 

And from what I am reading here, none of this bothers any of you.

 

Currently, the associated press is suing to release all the documents that the state of Texas refuses to release, which is a violation of the Freedom of Information Act. You can look it up at www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/breaking_news/895661.htm.

 

So if Bush wants to questions anybodys vietnam record, well it is coming right back at him in a theatre near any swing state in the next few days.

 

Enough. Over and out.

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