badndn Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Been pondering this. I see a bunch of people pretty much giving their Gilroy or KM bike away to buy a 2014 Chief. I am trying to predict the future by remembering the past. I think the PP100 Chiefs in particular will start becoming somewhat desirable sooner rather than later with the new Sheriff in town. These bikes have what it takes to be sought after. Low production (rare) and beautiful. They also have another thing that makes them like musclecars or any other vintage car. They harken back to a simpler style and time. The PP100 bikes are a simple motorcycle. No EFI, no real computer. They have the classic V-twin look and arguably one of the prettiest engines ever made. All this makes them prime targets for restorers and collectors on down the road. I remember in 1978 seeing a white Hemi Superbird sitting on a used car lot on a corner in Charlotte NC. The price was written in shoe polish on the windshield..."1200.00 LOW MILES". Even then I knew the Superbird was a special car, but I rode right by it to another car lot and bought my first Corvette. A 1970 LT-1. A rare care too. Paid 3600.00 for it. Long story short, I kept the 70 Vette until 1984 and traded it in on a brand new 1984 Corvette. For those that don't know about Corvettes, Chevrolet didn't make an 83, they shut down production and introduced the "ALL NEW" 1984 model with all the bells and whistles. Uninhibited use of plastic and electronic bullshit everywhere, Bose stereo, digital dash, Crossram TBI, etc.. It was a NICE car. It was a GOOD car. It had issues, but most were easy fixes and were first year glitches. I drove the car until 1995. Put over 300000 miles on it. Could not have asked for a better car. BUT...it lacked something. It lacked the grit that the 1970 Vette had. It wasn't easy to maintain or fix and when it broke, it was big bucks. I sold the wore out 1984 for a few thousand bucks. By then, the Musclecar trend had become HUGE. The white Superbird I road past would easily fetch 1/4 million and that LT-1 Vette would easily go for 100k. The old 1984 that was a mass produced wonder that everybody loved is still sitting in the guys backyard that bought it from me. He MIGHT could get 1000.00 for it. Maybe. So..the moral of the story is...Boys (and Girls) don't sell your rare Superbird to buy a common Barn Sparrow. If you want a Barn Sparrow, buy that too. But don't give your Superbird away to get it. The KM bikes will become collectible and desirable at some point too. If for no other reason than rarity. It's guaranteed. I think the current concept of lower price, mass produced Indians will hasten the process. At some point, rejetting your carb will become cool again. Indian owners will long to have a bike that they can actually tune and work on. lol My opinion. What's yours? Edited November 21, 2013 by badndn 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethedrummer Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Claiborne & I have been having this very discussion for several weeks. I lOVE my KM for every reason plus some you mention above, but a thoroughly modern smooth touring machine calls after a long day of riding the '11. We have a lot of hobbies so it will be a few years before we can justify 2 bikes. I think wisdom and experiences like your example translates to the KM being in the family for a really long time. Have no idea if I'll ever be able or willing to do all the wrenching that will be required so; "long live the Indian Motorcycle Community"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) I'm pretty sure the electra glide is sold... if I let it go now and don't hold it til spring... you make me think Eddie.... I have always loved my chief... I must with all the problems I've had... I could buy the 14 outright if I sold both... but I got a few more years to work... maybe I keep the 02.... It could happen... it is a special bike... it is a different beast... it has a spot in the garage... it doesn't cost me anything.... hmmmm.... But... the new Indian is what I want... a reliable affordable beautiful motorcycle... okay... reliable is yet to be determined... but I'm sticking with it.... Edited November 21, 2013 by stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRat Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Agree. You see this all the time with technology shifts. Same holds true for the boxer engines out of Stuttgart. When they went from air cooled to water cooled they lost a little bit of their magic. Sure the new ones are fast, in fact crazy fast, but lack the smell, the feel, the moments of terror when that back end starts to break loose and the foot says get off the gas, but the brain says no, more gas. Same here, the Gilroys, just like the older P-cars will become collector items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickkciR Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Been pondering this. I see a bunch of people pretty much giving their Gilroy or KM bike away to buy a 2014 Chief..... ..................... . So..the moral of the story is...Boys (and Girls) don't sell your rare Superbird to buy a common Barn Sparrow. If you want a Barn Sparrow, buy that too. But don't give your Superbird away to get it. The KM bikes will become collectible and desirable at some point too. If for no other reason than rarity. It's guaranteed. I think the current concept of lower price, mass produced Indians will hasten the process. At some point, rejetting your carb will become cool again. Indian owners will long to have a bike that they can actually tune and work on. lol My opinion. What's yours? Excellent overview . I've thought similar things over the last year on this subject, put could never put it so eloquently has you have . I'm watching people unload their babies ..thinking .. wtf? Of course, it's not that simple if you can only have one , not two, for various reasons. But.. if you have the opportunity to keep both ... it's a simple decision.... IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalper38 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 As most Gilroy owners on here, I have a love/hate relationship with my 03 Vintage. But I am NOT getting rid of it just to buy one of the new ones. If and when I get a new Indian (Polaris version) it will be an addition to the stable. I'm using Prof O, CK, MALDEV and a few others as my guide: Keep the old and buy the new. And push the cars outside if you have to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badndn Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 I am already thinking of buying an '03 Vintage and do a frame off resto on it. I mean a nut and bolt, better than new resto. Like I used to do on cars. Price is great and it would be fun and rewarding. Plus I would have a beautiful rare bike when done. If I am thinking this, others are too. They are indeed a unique breed and worthy of the resto. I promise you...more and more will start to feel the same way. We have a bunch of new people catching the Indian Fever with the new bikes. They will be looking for a project to fulfill their need to "work on something". To create something. Once you get the fever, (really get it) you NEVER lose it. It's an addiction that can't be stopped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHIEF DOC 99 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Eddie ~ good points ~ hope you didn't go with the '94 vette after selling that '84... Old hemi mopars are crazy $$$$ now ~ 1970 Barracuda ~ HemiCuda is a prime example too. A robin eggshell blue '03 Vintage with a built PP114" Blackhawk Motors would be a keeper for me too. And this is from a guy that is not a big fan of the PP100s. Hot Rod Heaven http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au5xm3sqaZA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au5xm3sqaZA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badndn Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Eddie ~ good points ~ hope you didn't go with the '94 vette after selling that '84... Old hemi mopars are crazy $$$$ now ~ 1970 Barracuda ~ HemiCuda is a prime example too. A robin eggshell blue '03 Vintage with a built PP114" Blackhawk Motors would be a keeper for me too. And this is from a guy that is not a big fan of the PP100s. Hot Rod Heaven http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au5xm3sqaZA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au5xm3sqaZA I had many other Corvettes and Muscle cars during that time. I would restore them. Around that time, I had a 69 Corvette big block and a 1970 Dodge Challenger T/A. The T/A was one I wish I had back. The car is so rare that most people have never seen one or know they exist. Factory 340 6 pak. Yep...340..not 440. Factory side exhaust, Factory fiberglass scoop hood. Spoilers front and rear. Hemi 4 speed with pistol grip shifter. It was the only red with red interior with black vinyl top T/A ever produced. All matching numbers down to the brake calipers. 72k one owner miles. Damn it I was a dumbass for selling it. Here is a T/A with black interior. Sniff Edited November 21, 2013 by badndn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHIEF DOC 99 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6MFHCGrzgQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6MFHCGrzgQ 340 sixpack was a smokin' package ~ still is if you can find 'em. '68 Charger was my personal fav, along with the '69 Roadrunners! Try to find a '68 Charger convertible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Good post brother....I have been drooling over a steel bumper C3 for a few years now....torn between reliability and daily driver comfort of a C5 Z06....or going with my soul and getting a C3 and reconnecting with the dreams of my youth. Definitely a hard choice... I think the Gilroy PP100 will end up being more sought after than the PP105 from KM...even with the hand building as it was the first year of the Indian PP motor...first Indian framed bike by Gilroy and many consider the turning point for Indian motorcycles going into their own even given the missteps of the parent companies. When I was having a beer with John Smith here in Charleston as he visited my home city....he pulled up his phone and showed me some pictures. It was of a 1947 Chief (Indian Red) with another beautiful bike sitting beside it. Closer I looked at this beautiful machine the more something bothered me about it. It had whitewalls but something was familiar. It was my RedHotBitch I sold John to get the Kings Mountain after fighting her for years and years to get her to a reliable state. I guess I finally got her right when I sold her as the fella has had years of trouble free riding minus a new coil (i had the original from Gilroy still) and the Aussie Officials screwing up the hand controls seriously...but otherwise is running strong and reliable. Oh, Damn that volcanic red metallic paint and the mud flaps and all on her. Made me fall in love all over again. Hence another red Chief in my garage and one day would like to pick up another Gilroy Chief or Scout to fix up for rides around town...but who knows. That gloss red Darkhorse I wanted to buy from Mark still tugs at me....and that in fact may be my next bike to sit BESIDE my Chieftain...not to replace her. Good discussion... Edited November 21, 2013 by Brock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Resort Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 What about the 99-01 Chiefs? And the Gilroy Scout/Spirit ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Mark Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I agree with Eddie, but probably more so with the KM's because the production numbers are so profoundly lower. I can't recall the exact production numbers, but there are tens of thousands of Gilroys and probably about a third of them were the PP100's. The production numbers for the KM version (both Polaris and KM years) were profoundly lower, being only around 1100 and some. Harley makes more...nearly twice as many...CVO's of a single model in any single given year. I do, however, wish I had not sold the Snake. I yelled at it, kicked it, cursed it, and when it was all over, I had put nearly 50 grand into that bike. Talk about a true love/hate relationship... Anyhow, when I sold it, it had become apparent that MG was never going to ride it with me again, and I was only riding it solo, and I thought it deserved to be ridden more. If not for that, I would still have it...although it is now living in Kansas, and gets loved and ridden, and the guy who has it will probably keep it forever. C'est la vie. The good thing about the Gilroy bikes is, as Eddie noted, the ability to work on them, and the easy (relative) availability of parts. I think we will probably be able to scrounge parts for the KM's for a good while though. 20 or 30 years from now, it may be a problem. Still...I am probably going to go find a green KM Bomber in the near future...with the redhead on the tank, naturally. To follow up on Eddie's Superbird story... the very first car I bought for myself, when I was in the service was a 1971 Formula 400 Firebird. When I think of what I sold it for, I want to puke. $1600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKelly Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Been pondering this. I see a bunch of people pretty much giving their Gilroy or KM bike away to buy a 2014 Chief. I am trying to predict the future by remembering the past. I think the PP100 Chiefs in particular will start becoming somewhat desirable sooner rather than later with the new Sheriff in town. These bikes have what it takes to be sought after. Low production (rare) and beautiful. They also have another thing that makes them like musclecars or any other vintage car. They harken back to a simpler style and time. The PP100 bikes are a simple motorcycle. No EFI, no real computer. They have the classic V-twin look and arguably one of the prettiest engines ever made. All this makes them prime targets for restorers and collectors on down the road. I remember in 1978 seeing a white Hemi Superbird sitting on a used car lot on a corner in Charlotte NC. The price was written in shoe polish on the windshield..."1200.00 LOW MILES". Even then I knew the Superbird was a special car, but I rode right by it to another car lot and bought my first Corvette. A 1970 LT-1. A rare care too. Paid 3600.00 for it. Long story short, I kept the 70 Vette until 1984 and traded it in on a brand new 1984 Corvette. For those that don't know about Corvettes, Chevrolet didn't make an 83, they shut down production and introduced the "ALL NEW" 1984 model with all the bells and whistles. Uninhibited use of plastic and electronic bullshit everywhere, Bose stereo, digital dash, Crossram TBI, etc.. It was a NICE car. It was a GOOD car. It had issues, but most were easy fixes and were first year glitches. I drove the car until 1995. Put over 300000 miles on it. Could not have asked for a better car. BUT...it lacked something. It lacked the grit that the 1970 Vette had. It wasn't easy to maintain or fix and when it broke, it was big bucks. I sold the wore out 1984 for a few thousand bucks. By then, the Musclecar trend had become HUGE. The white Superbird I road past would easily fetch 1/4 million and that LT-1 Vette would easily go for 100k. The old 1984 that was a mass produced wonder that everybody loved is still sitting in the guys backyard that bought it from me. He MIGHT could get 1000.00 for it. Maybe. So..the moral of the story is...Boys (and Girls) don't sell your rare Superbird to buy a common Barn Sparrow. If you want a Barn Sparrow, buy that too. But don't give your Superbird away to get it. The KM bikes will become collectible and desirable at some point too. If for no other reason than rarity. It's guaranteed. I think the current concept of lower price, mass produced Indians will hasten the process. At some point, rejetting your carb will become cool again. Indian owners will long to have a bike that they can actually tune and work on. lol My opinion. What's yours? I agree with you on most of the stuff you said. Never did like Corvettes. Superbird you couldn't drive them on the road here in Maryland. Now when your talking Mopar. You got to love them,even when they sound like tin when you close the door. Now the Gilroys 100's will be what every body will want. Still the Gilroy 99-01 are still good looking bikes. The 100 will be like the 32 and 34 fords. The 99-01 will like Chevy and other Fords. I will all mine as long as I can. I've had my 35 for almost 30 years and I still love it. Some come and some go but my 35 will be here for ever.. It's some thing about building your our ride. Most of you guys will never know that feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKelly Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I am already thinking of buying an '03 Vintage and do a frame off resto on it. I mean a nut and bolt, better than new resto. Like I used to do on cars. Price is great and it would be fun and rewarding. Plus I would have a beautiful rare bike when done. If I am thinking this, others are too. They are indeed a unique breed and worthy of the resto. I promise you...more and more will start to feel the same way. We have a bunch of new people catching the Indian Fever with the new bikes. They will be looking for a project to fulfill their need to "work on something". To create something. Once you get the fever, (really get it) you NEVER lose it. It's an addiction that can't be stopped. Do IT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKelly Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The thing we got to do and keep in mind is we need the Gilroys around. And there history. That what IIRA is all about. Just like the Hot Rods have done. Back in my day they were call Beaters. It was the rods when it wasn't done. It was neater in a beater. Now Rockabilly has taken over. The main reason this is good is because it is still growing. To some of you new guys. Slow down, let the Indian feeling get to you. And you may fine out what some of us Gilroy owners have found out. I love my Gilroys. The 14 has to grow on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 gotta agree you have an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP with your bike when you have turned a wrench (more than just oil change...talking head gaskets, oil pumps, pushrod adjustment, ignition, carb rejetting, etc) or been left stranded and abandoned on the side of the road while you try and trouble shoot and get her home in 90* heat while a stream of Harleys ride by and laugh.....or calling a brother from this forum or IIRA to ask them to look up part numbers or fixes for you in REAL TIME so you can try to identify the right clutch cable so you can walk 2 miles in leathers at bike week to buy one...return and find out it is throw out bearing that is bad not damn clutch cable. LOL You build a special bond when you have truly hit the low of lows...and then felt the high of highs when she was running great, children were laughing, women were getting moist as you rode by and husbands were jealous. Truly is a soul changing experience...you just dont get with complete reliability and never having to do much but fuel, oil and tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKelly Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 A lot of girls didn't look like that. They look more like this. And this way look a lot better. [/url This was about 25 years ago. The old girl still looks pretty dam good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKelly Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 gotta agree you have an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP with your bike when you have turned a wrench (more than just oil change...talking head gaskets, oil pumps, pushrod adjustment, ignition, carb rejetting, etc) or been left stranded and abandoned on the side of the road while you try and trouble shoot and get her home in 90* heat while a stream of Harleys ride by and laugh.....or calling a brother from this forum or IIRA to ask them to look up part numbers or fixes for you in REAL TIME so you can try to identify the right clutch cable so you can walk 2 miles in leathers at bike week to buy one...return and find out it is throw out bearing that is bad not damn clutch cable. LOL You build a special bond when you have truly hit the low of lows...and then felt the high of highs when she was running great, children were laughing, women were getting moist as you rode by and husbands were jealous. Truly is a soul changing experience...you just dont get with complete reliability and never having to do much but fuel, oil and tires. I just hope we don't lose the feelings with the new bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKelly Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Going back to work. I'll get some more pictures of me up soon. Until than,this is one of me at Branson taking it easy. ENJOY Edited November 21, 2013 by CKelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badndn Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 I just don't think I could sell my Gilroy. Owning an Indian was a lifelong dream fulfilled for me. In the 11 1/2 years I've owned it, we have been thru some shit together. Best of times, worst of times. In the worst times, I could look at that bike and still smile. It gave me pleasure when not much else would. I have never once considered selling it. When I look back on it, the bike has been a good one after I got the wrinkles ironed out. Kelly, I think you are right, the PP100 will be the 32 Ford of Indian Motorcycles. All the Gilroy and Kings Mountain bikes will be sought after, but the PP100 Chief marks the point when Indian began to rise up from the ashes. That will never happen again and is an important part of Indian Motorcycle history. Nobody would have guessed the odd route that it took to get where we are and have had some back steps, but the PP100 was the first painful step on that long journey. I don't think they made but a little over 3000 PP100 bikes. Attrition has reduced that number even more. Blown engines, wrecks etc., may have that number below 2500 or even 2000 by now. I think they are a keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badndn Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 gotta agree you have an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP with your bike when you have turned a wrench (more than just oil change...talking head gaskets, oil pumps, pushrod adjustment, ignition, carb rejetting, etc) or been left stranded and abandoned on the side of the road while you try and trouble shoot and get her home in 90* heat while a stream of Harleys ride by and laugh.....or calling a brother from this forum or IIRA to ask them to look up part numbers or fixes for you in REAL TIME so you can try to identify the right clutch cable so you can walk 2 miles in leathers at bike week to buy one...return and find out it is throw out bearing that is bad not damn clutch cable. LOL You build a special bond when you have truly hit the low of lows...and then felt the high of highs when she was running great, children were laughing, women were getting moist as you rode by and husbands were jealous. Truly is a soul changing experience...you just dont get with complete reliability and never having to do much but fuel, oil and tires. I remember that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRat Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 How in God's name do we go from this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au5xm3sqaZA to this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 How in God's name do we go from this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au5xm3sqaZA to this: We try to get better with every image.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRat Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I know plumber's crack and all, but Jesus, Charles! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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