darkrider Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 street driven water cooled v twins are going to almost always be more reliable and more trouble free than air cooled v twins. is this a true statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunters Friend Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 street driven water cooled v twins are going to almost always be more reliable and more trouble free than air cooled v twins. is this a true statement? 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkrider Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 100% then what are we waitin on? I know harley made the leap, but they put it in a sporty'er looking kinda bike vs a traditional cruiser. I wonder if polaris will break the mold? from what I've been hearing here and there from differant bike-shop mechanics, and some vic riders... the v twin cam victory motor isn't actually as great and reliable as alot of them pump them up to be. is it mostly just because of a ugly radiator that the us migration to water cooled hasn't happened yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRADER Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 As long as the water doesn't start leaking some where. Unless it is done right, it becomes another issue. And if looks of a water cooling system could be a problem for people, then find a motorcyle with a radiator on it that would look good on a Indian....You cannot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel3078 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 When its 90+ degrees out in stop and go traffic, you'll get used to that ugly radiator real quick. They tend to be a much faster bike than air cooled also. Same as snowmibiles. Liquid cooled bikes have the same issues as cars however. Leaks in hoses, cap, water pump, radiator. Gotta flush fluid to keep things clean every now and then. With the EPA and CARB, just a matter of time before air cooled big displacement bikes go away. You want a new air cooled 2 wheeled vehicle 5 years from now, buy a scooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabondjpm Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I wonder if polaris will break the mold? from what I've been hearing here and there from differant bike-shop mechanics, and some vic riders... the v twin cam victory motor isn't actually as great and reliable as alot of them pump them up to be. Back up the bus on this one. Polaris has already broken the mold. All the Vics are air/oil cooled and pass EPA specs just fine. They didn't need to resort to water because of the over engineering of their design. Because of the cooling efficiency of the engine, they are able to tighten specs on it and make it bulletproof. The ONLY issues I've heard about Vics relates to electronics, NOT the engines. The electronics problems relate to someone's iPod not working with the hand controls or other trivial issues. I BEAT on my old Freedom 92 HARD and all I ever did was change the oil for over 30K miles. Try that with another American made bike. I've witnessed original 99 motors with over 100k and the cases haven't even been broken for a rebuild yet and it was on a dyno still putting out good numbers. I strongly disagree with the ones pulling on your ear. Now, I'm not saying there aren't some bikes that we crap from the factory. Yes, just like any other manufacture, sometimes lemons happen. Historically, they have with exponentially less frequency with Vics that with any other brand I've ever ridden, including the metrics and exotics. Mind you this is all IMHO but I've met hundreds of Vic riders and talked with them about their bikes and often visit KevinX's board. They are just a persnickety as we are and aren't afraid to call a spade a spade. That is one reason Victory Motorcycle has the highest customer service of all major brands. My point is this, there is more than one way to skin a cat for the EPA. Joe Malfa states after a performance build of his bikes, they pass EPA emissions standards. He does it with air flow manipulation. Many have picked up the "water cooling" because it is popular, people understand it, it is likely less cost, easy to incorporate and it works. It all comes down to cost but engineering can blaze other paths if someone is willing to take the leap. Ride safe, Vagabond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkrider Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 how much cooler (if so) do the Vic motors run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkrider Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 and I'm basing this on all the foreign water vtwin bikes out there that you just seem to never hear having any problems and run forever. seems like Harley, as big as they are, would have wanted to put up the $$$ by now to lead the way with something other than jus shutting down a cyl when it gets hot. which to me just seems like putting a band-aid on the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potter7 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 On a hot day, in stop and go my Vic can run up to 260. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabondjpm Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 how much cooler (if so) do the Vic motors run? Got me on that one; I don't have research to offer you on that. If I remember correctly, every engine needs to reach 180 deg F for proper oil flow. They must run more than that but not likely as high as 230 or whatever ours runs at. What I can say is on my old 92, I never had any issues of heat while sitting in Chicago Stop and Slow traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabondjpm Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 and I'm basing this on all the foreign water vtwin bikes out there that you just seem to never hear having any problems and run forever. seems like Harley, as big as they are, would have wanted to put up the $$ by now to lead the way with something other than jus shutting down a cyl when it gets hot. which to me just seems like putting a band-aid on the problem You ask a good question. I'm sure it has to do with the cost factor but culture does influence it. I'm not talking HD vs Metric. I am referring to individualist vs collectivist cultures/societies. The metrics are built in collectivist countries where an individual finds enormous pride in how their company thrives, not how well they do their job, as an individual. This mentality, IMHO, has something to do with it. Of course, there is that contrary outlier of Honda GoldWings assembled in the USA built from foreign parts. Anyway, that is my take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Loco Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 You can hide more mechanical flaws with coolant system in place. Go get a VEE Rod or Yappazapper if that is what you want. My '99 goes 180 in 90 degree weather. 100F outdoors 2 days ago, the engine oil tank temp never got over 200F with no oil cooler either. Been this way since I reworked the crankcase & head vents to my design ~ pushes hot pressures out while allowing outside air to enter only through the carb/intake maintaining a beneficial vacuum state to exist internally. Add to oil tank temps by 20% to arrive at correct internal engine oil temps. So when it reads 180F at the tank, you're looking at 210/215 inside the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunters Friend Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 DR - 2 things that are an absolute no brainer IMO. Water cooled engine and shaft drive. You put those 2 items in a bike and you have almost guaranteed 100,000 carefree miles and probably a whole lot more. Do they have the "cool" look? No, not really. But cool is relevant when you are standing on the side of the road waiting for a hauler to arrive. I honestly don't understand why they cannot make both. Honda has an ultra cruiser line rolling out with their Aspencades and the cruiser market with their Shadows and what not. But the key here is both have the basic bulletproof powertrain of a liquid cooled motor and a shaft drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badndn Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) I'm an air cooled man myself. Chain too. I don't give a shit about 100k miles. I won't ever put that on a bike. Don't care about chain upkeep. I need to look around back there every now and again anyway. Fuck a bunch of "horsepower" I will never use and neither will 99% of the people here. If I want smooth, watercooled, maintenance free, I will buy a metric. NOT. Edited July 23, 2011 by badndn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasbin Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I see both sides here, Right now I am pretty happy with what I have, In 5-7 years I will be looking for something a little more towards what HF is talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefin Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm an air cooled man myself. Chain too. I don't give a shit about 100k miles. I won't ever put that on a bike. Don't care about chain upkeep. I need to look around back there every now and again anyway. Fuck a bunch of "horsepower" I will never use and neither will 99% of the people here. F I want smooth, watercooLed, maintenance free, I will buy a metric. NOT. Kawi Ed ? LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasbin Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Kawi Ed ? LOL!!! BADHNDA???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Resort Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 IMO Honda has done a fine job with the radiator on the Fury IMO ... Honda did better than Harley/Porsche did on the V-Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badndn Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) HD spent a lot of time on the radiator on the V-Rod. I saw it on a documentary somewhere. That picture doesn't really do it justice. Kinda the worst possible angle. Seems like it could be mounted underneath the motor with electric fan. Maybe a scoop or something. They have probably already tried that though. Edited July 23, 2011 by badndn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkrider Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 I don't want a yap bike I just want a american made bike that is affordable, and, has the same reputation of quality that seems like most imported bikes have. there was a time when most of the best affordable stuff in the world was made here. that time long since passed probably before I was even born. and if any group of people left here that seems like it would go against the grain and show we can still kick ass in the transportation sector,... would be the type that ride 2 wheels jmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel3078 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 PLAN A..........Go buy something else than a V-Twin bike that's not owned or made in Japan or other Asian market then. Canada, Germany, and England make some damn nice, fast, and reliable motorcycles that are offered here in USA. Oh ya, you wanted American made. And you want American designed, owned, manufactured, and V-Twin. Go jump to the other side of the camp, and buy a used HD or Victory while your waiting for Polaris to straighten out your KM Indian. PLAN B..........Used HD and Polaris bikes are a dime a dozen right now. Keep the Indian in the garage or sell it, your choice. It's under warranty and Polaris will fix it up for ya in a few months. You have to decide what is better for you. Throwing 5-10K out the door if you sell your Indian, or wait a few months for Polaris. Ya this season is toast if you wait, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper. Sell or keep your Vic or HD in a yeaar or two - your choice. PLAN C..........Want to stay with Indian......... Go buy a rebuilt Gilroy bike with an upgraded PP100 engine for 10-15K. Wait for your KM Indian to get fixed and upgraded under warranty, then sell the PP100 bike. This is only gonna cost ya 1-2 grand max in the long run and it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than letting that Dark Horse go cause your pissed at it, KM, and others I didn't mention. Rebuilt and upgraded Gilroy bikes are very reliable, and plenty fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badndn Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Darkrider...what is the worst thing to happen to your bike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I prefer air cooled engines... I might be accepting of an oil cooled systems if done correctly and the cooling device is not some absurd bolt on device that pulls your eye to it immediately....but for now air cooled is my choice. IF Polaris can meet EPA requirments with air cooled motors for next decade....and fix the very few issues....then what is the down side? Sitting in heavy traffic is the only thing I can think of without moving....run synthetic with oil cooler to increase flow and surface area and that helps quite a bit as synthetic does not start breaking down from heat nearly as quickly as dino... One thing about my Gilroy and now KM bike....it still feels like a bike under me. That is why I ride for the thrill, the wind, the sound, the vibration.......riding so much you know every sound your motor makes and how it changes in sound when you put on or take off your windshield. That after listening to the motor for hours on end you can pick up by sound when it is getting too warm or is missing slightly from a fouled plug. I dont want ABS, Full Stereo System, zero vibration motor and drivetrain, zero maintenance. I have friends that ride bikes like that...and guess what...when something goes wrong they are left clueless and usually far from home as they never saw the warning signs...or had hands on the belt, or plugs, or oil fill neck, or tires to check to see if they were worn, needed replacing, or just tightening. If it is not caught by their scheduled service then they dont know and dont care until something breaks. I like being involved in my bike...knowing every bolt...getting on my knees to check for rocks in the belt teeth...looking for leaks around primary, tranny, and oil bag....grabbing brakes to rock back and forth to check bearing race play in steering system....in fork travel....in brakes holding. Maybe that is why having a fuel gauge never bothers me...I grew up religiously resetting odometer/tripmeter every FILL UP and filling up FULL every time. I know how far I can go before hitting reserve...therefore knowing how much fuel I have just by looking at TRIP METER. If in doubt I would crack the caps and peak inside. I just hope there are always bikes that will remind you why you are riding....I dont want the sterile, hands-off, maintenance free riding experience....ever. I will buy an Indian Made Enfield or a Ural before I do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkrider Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 fwiw, I wasn't really starting this thread cause of my current frustration about my km bike. I realize what my options are I'm just conversing and learnin about American v twin cruisers and reliability in general Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottdog Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 street driven water cooled v twins are going to almost always be more reliable and more trouble free than air cooled v twins. is this a true statement? 100% You answering this question is about as absurd as Airwolf rebuilding his own motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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