Hd Going Non-Union?

[injun46]

Latest

[Vagabondjpm]

It is going to be a rough contact year for all unions.

 

 

Ride safe.

[Micmac]

$30 something an hour for the next 7 years is better than zero something an hour for the next 7 years.

[Chiefin]

$30 something an hour for the next 7 years is better than zero something an hour for the next 7 years.

 

 

Yep,, Im thinkin,, Ya just might be right..

 

Or they could ride the "Obama Welfare Train"....

[Vagabondjpm]

I don't think that is the big issue. IMHO it is the "fxck the new guy" mentality. Sure, the current workers will keep their level but new employees will get 1/2 the pay for the same work and no benefits. This will breed animosity and division.

 

The unions will go the way of the dodo bird because of their lack of flexibility and greed.

 

Ride safe.

[littleman]

Problem in Wisconsin is what Mercury Marine did as a presedence (sp?) Freeze pay and new hires would be non-union at half the pay, Or make new hires 'casual' which means part time w/no benies! Its not always the unions fault!!!

[Rosie]

It is going to be a rough contact year for all unions.

 

 

Ride safe.

Not for GM and Chrysler.

The Unions own the fucking companies...

Thank You Mr. Hopey-Changey....

[Micmac]

My wife was union. After 9/11 the ailines industry was decimated. She went to work one day and they (the company) said,"We have good news, and bad news, if you want your job your pay has been cut in half,no more retirement plan after today (except what was currently in it) and we are taking one week vacation from you, if not-step over in that line and will cut you a check for 30K." If you want your job, get yer ass to work. She stayed and has benefited by her hard work. She is in management now not a union worker and makes 3 times what she did under union "protection". The union stood there with their thumb up their ass when that was happening. Most of the people left and took the 30K and lifetime flight benefits, I guess they thought they could get $30.00 an hour job with benefits elsewhere. The union is still there "protecting" all the new hires who are making $10.00 an hour. When you hire on you have no choice but to join the union, or you don't get the job, oh yeah-union dues have increased twofold since that time.I guess they do twice as much of nothing.

Labor unions had their place in our history. We all (those of us who work) have benefited from the selfless sacrifices union members made during the labor movement's formulative years. Their efforts have vastly improved the American workplace. In this century, those days are no longer with us. Laws such as "right to work" and the current decline of the economy have made unions powerless to effect any protection. Sad, but true. If HD's employee's don't take the offer, they will go the was of Victory,Hecho en Mexico mi Amigo. That is if any Mexicans are left there to build em, maybe their are already in Milwaukee and Tomohawk? PS HD made it's last sidehack at Tomohawk this year. HD is no longer in the sidecar business.

[badndn]

Agree with Pete 100%. Everything has a time and place. The unions had theirs. The need for them may come around again. A business is just like our goverment. All the benefits are great but both must be sustainable. The goverment isn't. Neither is HD.Accept that fact and make adjustments or perish.

[mycorn]

i think we as tax payers should own

a motorcycle manufacturer as well

 

where's all that bailout dough?

 

fuk

print some more

 

 

and while they'r at it

i, as the CEO of my sound company,

am not being compensated millions annually

 

ergo...

 

 

 

i hate to blame this on a previous generation

[i'm about the mean here i think at 53]

but i believe the damage was done when

the public agreed to fund the government out of pocket

 

ya cant argue the fact that

a lot of cool things

have happened in the last 70 years

 

 

 

can you put pandora back in the box?

 

 

garden gnomes have wanton desires

...jus like everybody else

[Doc Loco]

Hey, Pete have you tried the Mtn Dew / Pepsi throwbacks yet?

 

They're back...Cane sugar for those who abhor diet soft drinks.

 

Edited September 13, 2010 by Doc Loco

[Micmac]

I see them Doc and drool. I can no longer imbibe carbonated beverages. Ice tea is now my drug of choice.

[BONMYI]

Been Union nearly my whole employed life, in Closed Shop, N Right to Work States, north, and

south; with the south being more dificult to grasp the Union mentality, and orginize.. Three

contracts ago the majority voted (I voted no) to go two tier wage rate; seriously undermined

membership relations, and is causing dissent in rank and file today.. Last Strike, they were

crossin the picket line in droves before the first week was out.. Contract is commin due in

March 2011, N company has a lot of future work contracted, gonna be intersting negotations..

 

For what it's worth, my 2 cents,

 

 

Dave

[stu]

Hey, Pete have you tried the Mtn Dew / Pepsi throwbacks yet?

 

They're back...Cane sugar for those who abhor diet soft drinks.

 

 

Haven't had the Pepsi yet... but damn... Mountain Dew is really good.... just like when I was kid... cept it's in a plastic bottle.... be even better in glass......

[mjdart]

This conversation generates a lot of strong feelings on both sides, but take this into account. That union H-D worker earning $60K a year is paying 6.2% in social security taxes and H-D is matching that 6.2% as well or $7,440 which is feeding into the S.S. system. That worker is also paying Federal Income Taxes those wages. Now look at the part time casual worker and what they'll pay into the system, this whole thing is already on the edge of collapse, sooner rather than later the camel's back is gonna be broken and we'll all pay the price.

 

I worked for GM for 10 years back in the 70's and we had close to 650,000 US employees feeding taxes into the government system and also buying goods and services in the surrounding communities. Now GM has about 80,000 US employees and the government is paying most of those costs. It was the management that was most to blame for shoddy cars & trucks. Todays American GM, Ford & Chrsler workers make world class products as well as those non union American workers employed at the Toyota, Honda, BMW, & Mercedes Plants here in the US. The bean counters trying to constantly reduce costs at the sacrafice of the product are the real problem and they are empowered by corporate greed.

 

Also consider that each GM Plant spawns many satellite facilities around them which employed countless thousands more and now they're almost all gone, how many new cars, homes and other goods are $30K employees going to buy to sustain and grow our economy. And these replacement workers will also have to rely on government health care being paid as casual employees.

 

Do you really think the price of a new Harley Davidson Motorcycle will be less if they cut the payroll in half. Personally, to date I have paid $123,595 into social security and my employers have matched this, I think I'll be able to collect, do you younger guys hold that belief?

[firebird77clone]

I severely doubt social security ( the one which I have paid into ) will be intact by my 65. And that is only about 20 years away now. Sad. My only consolation is that I will be getting some disability when I get out of the military. Assuming I survive the deployment, of course.

 

I think the whole union negotiation is crap. The unions have been squeezing the lifeblod out of corprate America for too long already. They are quick to take advantage of the good times ( remember, the SHAREHOLDER has hisked his capital for the company, not the worker. ) and slow to make concessions in the bad. The union also stilfes the company and prohibits change. If you are union, and say.. a welder.. then you can't help pull wire. It will get you fired, because you are infringing upon the electrician's job.

 

I worked at a non-union plant, as an electronics technician. We would do anything electrical in the plant. Once we went to a small seminar for programming PLCs. The instructor asked how long it would take to construct a ( simple ) control box. We told him two-to-four hours, if we weren't interruped. The instructor immediately said "you must not be union". In a union plant, it would require the co operation of about five groups of people to get the box done, and you MIGHT get it in a couple days, IF it was high priority. Sometimes change is good.. sometimes it is essential.

 

If HD is serious about keeping its plants in Milwauke ( sp? ) then it should close them for six months. Bam. Tell the unions to get FU*KED. The six months of no production will help to get product off the sales floor, and mothballing the plants for six months will save a few cool MIL on overhead.

 

Six months later, open the doors and rehire with NO UNION. Make it CLEAR to the new employees that a new union will result in another closure and re-hire.

 

Easy.

[kc indiana]

Smart move in these times...

[Vinny]

sounds like harley is getting gready and wants more money looks like they will move to mexico some time im glad have an Indian

I would have to sell the harley

[badndn]

Do you know what the amount of your SS check is based on?

This conversation generates a lot of strong feelings on both sides, but take this into account. That union H-D worker earning $60K a year is paying 6.2% in social security taxes and H-D is matching that 6.2% as well or $7,440 which is feeding into the S.S. system. That worker is also paying Federal Income Taxes those wages. Now look at the part time casual worker and what they'll pay into the system, this whole thing is already on the edge of collapse, sooner rather than later the camel's back is gonna be broken and we'll all pay the price.

 

I worked for GM for 10 years back in the 70's and we had close to 650,000 US employees feeding taxes into the government system and also buying goods and services in the surrounding communities. Now GM has about 80,000 US employees and the government is paying most of those costs. It was the management that was most to blame for shoddy cars & trucks. Todays American GM, Ford & Chrsler workers make world class products as well as those non union American workers employed at the Toyota, Honda, BMW, & Mercedes Plants here in the US. The bean counters trying to constantly reduce costs at the sacrafice of the product are the real problem and they are empowered by corporate greed.

 

Also consider that each GM Plant spawns many satellite facilities around them which employed countless thousands more and now they're almost all gone, how many new cars, homes and other goods are $30K employees going to buy to sustain and grow our economy. And these replacement workers will also have to rely on government health care being paid as casual employees.

 

Do you really think the price of a new Harley Davidson Motorcycle will be less if they cut the payroll in half. Personally, to date I have paid $123,595 into social security and my employers have matched this, I think I'll be able to collect, do you younger guys hold that belief?

[badndn]

You got to be frikkin' shitting me. 12k to ALL active and laid off employees! HD is going down. Sell your stock. What is that? like 20 million dollars? Holy shit. Dumbass unions letting laid off workers vote on it too. They just got thru borrowing money from Warren Buffet and company at high interest rates. Unbelievable. Read this shit....

 

The Milwaukee contract includes one-time lump-sum payments of $12,000, left over from a previous grievance settlement, which go to all active employees and to laid-off workers who were eligible to be called back.

 

A number of those laid-off workers voted yes, citing the money as a big factor.

 

"I was laid off, I had no chance of being called back so yeah, I wanted the $12,000," said Greg Kuehn, 49, a machinist who has since found work at a printing company. "If I still worked there, though, I would have voted no."

Edited September 13, 2010 by badndn

[Doc Loco]

Smart move in these times...LINK: Now working!

 

 

 

 

Iconic .... The US motorcycle maker is set to open its first showroom …

 

By DINESH RAMDE, Associated Press Writer Dinesh Ramde, Associated Press Writer

WAUKESHA, Wis. – Harley-Davidson Inc.'s three Wisconsin unions approved a labor contract Monday laden with steep concessions, reacting defensively after the motorcycle company threatened to move hundreds of jobs out of the state.

 

The proposed deal freezes employees' pay, slashes hundreds of production jobs and assigns large volumes of work to part-time workers. But it also saves at hundreds of other jobs, at least in the short-term.

 

Some 1,140 union members from a suburban Milwaukee plant voted, approving the contract by a 55 to 45 percent margin. In northern Wisconsin, 293 workers at the Tomahawk plant voted, approving it by a margin of 73 to 27 percent.

 

Harley-Davidson Inc. executives had said they would move production out of Wisconsin if the contract were rejected, which would have eliminated about 1,350 jobs. They are now set to decide the next steps Tuesday.

 

Mike Masik, the president of the Milwaukee-based chapter of the United Steel Workers, said the close vote there reveals how grudgingly his workers approved the deal.

 

"It shows people are really getting sick of being threatened," he said.

 

Although the contract runs for seven years starting in April 2012, it doesn't guarantee the company will stay in Wisconsin that whole time, Masik said — only that the company will stop searching for alternate sites.

 

Employees in Tomahawk were more willing to concede. That's because the loss of Harley jobs there would be far more devastating in such a small community, said Frank Garrou, the president of the local union.

 

"This is about jobs in the local economy," Garrou said. "Once they're gone they're gone. That's what it boiled down to."

 

The Milwaukee contract includes one-time lump-sum payments of $12,000, left over from a previous grievance settlement, which go to all active employees and to laid-off workers who were eligible to be called back.

 

A number of those laid-off workers voted yes, citing the money as a big factor.

 

"I was laid off, I had no chance of being called back so yeah, I wanted the $12,000," said Greg Kuehn, 49, a machinist who has since found work at a printing company. "If I still worked there, though, I would have voted no."

 

Some workers who did vote no said they thought the company was bluffing about moving in such a bad economy, while others were angry at being given such a bitter ultimatum.

 

"It was like, 'Take it or leave it,'" said Mary Dexter, 58, who has worked in a warehouse for almost 10 years. "Well, then, adios. See ya."

 

The Harley workers make motorcycle engines in Milwaukee and windshields and other components in the northern Wisconsin city of Tomahawk.

 

Harley said it appreciated both the outcome of the vote and the members' support of the contract.

 

"Today's outcome in Milwaukee is a significant step toward creating the competitive, flexible operations that are essential to the company's future," it said in a statement.

 

Some union members consoled each other outside the Waukesha County Exposition Center where they voted, saying Harley was holding the union accountable for its own foolish business decisions. Several said Harley chief executive Keith Wandell should take an equal cut in pay, and another said the company that had once been a pillar in Milwaukee has now become a disgrace.

 

"For Sale" signs hung on about a dozen of the approximate 100 Harley motorcycles parked outside the center.

 

Union member Greg Voelzke, 52, said he voted against the contract because it included no guarantees the company would stay.

 

"We came to battle today, not for victory, but to fight another day," said Voelzke, who has worked for Harley-Davidson for 22 years. He said he did not want to support a contract that offered so little.

 

Gary Walczak, who has driven a Harley truck for 40 years, reasoned that despite the lack of a guarantee, a non-guaranteed job was still better than none.

 

"That's the whole reason I voted yes, just to keep jobs in Milwaukee," he said.

 

 

All depends on whose ox is gettin' Gored.

 

[Doc Loco]

All depends on whose ox is gettin' Gored.

Harley 'D' has sold millions of motorcycles in the last 10 years alone...Where is the fiscal responsibility? ..... where's the money???

Face it = they made some ridiculous business decisions, squandored much wealth and are now asking those low on the totem pole to bail 'em out.

 

These are not hip businessmen in the HD hierarchy...they are losers and still in charge...

[Doc Loco]

You got to be frikkin' shitting me. 12k to ALL active and laid off employees! HD is going down. Sell your stock. What is that? like 20 million dollars? Holy shit. Dumbass unions letting laid off workers vote on it too. They just got thru borrowing money from Warren Buffet and company at high interest rates. Unbelievable. Read this shit....

 

The Milwaukee contract includes one-time lump-sum payments of $12,000, left over from a previous grievance settlement, which go to all active employees and to laid-off workers who were eligible to be called back.

 

A number of those laid-off workers voted yes, citing the money as a big factor.

 

"I was laid off, I had no chance of being called back so yeah, I wanted the $12,000," said Greg Kuehn, 49, a machinist who has since found work at a printing company. "If I still worked there, though, I would have voted no."

 

 

They are pretty uunintelligent at HD...bet you could sell em some liability insurance or maybe arrange to pilot their investment portfolio for 'em.

[badndn]

Bad management decisions exist in pretty much every company. They did squander the windfall of the 90's and early in this century. But how exactly did they squander it? HD is paying close to 100.00 an hour for people to build motorcycles. That is insane. Go ahead and site the big salaries of management now... BUT upper management isn't bolting on a muffler. They are trying to run a company that is bleeding at every orifice. All this while a cocky union is whining and crying. Frikkin' crazy. Bring those jobs to York County SC. We will build you a better motorcycle at half the pay and do it in a non-union atmosphere.

All depends on whose ox is gettin' Gored.

Harley 'D' has sold millions of motorcycles in the last 10 years alone...Where is the fiscal responsibility? ..... where's the money???

Face it = they made some ridiculous business decisions, squandored much wealth and are now asking those low on the totem pole to bail 'em out.

 

These are not hip businessmen in the HD hierarchy...they are losers and still in charge...

[badndn]

Yea ....I guess dumbasses are my prey. I'm a dumbass, so I would expect people of like mentality to do business with me. If I ran their investments, I would tell them to sell their own stock. However, they did make a good step toward righting the sinking ship by calling the union's hand. Hopefully Someone will get the helm that isn't scared to clean the shithouse of management.

They are pretty uunintelligent at HD...bet you could sell em some liability insurance or maybe arrange to pilot their investment portfolio for 'em.