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Iraqui atrocities....bullshit


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There has been alot of discussion about the pictures of these "Poor Iraqui's" being humiliated by our Army ! Some General (Fucking coward / should be shot for making these remarks) "we are appalled at what has happened here" .

 

Hey asshole these are the Iraqui soldiers who tortured there own people , Gassed the Iranians and Kurds, who killed Americans ! As I recall there is still one Navy pilot unaccounted for from Desert Storm ! Remember what they did to our hostages ? Those two young girls serving in our army , Remember how they were treated , sledge hammers to there legs and ankles! the fucking outrage , the sand niggers didnt have any out rage , they were jumping up and down with glee, remember a week ago or so , when the those contractors were "executed" the muslims around the globe were rejoicing , thanks to al-jezeera!

 

I remmember 911 , well ! I remmember every day when I see young Marines and Soldiers being killed because we are fighting a politicians war "dont shoot , until your shot at" !

 

I say fuck all those towel heads , I am not disturbed over the actions at the Iraqui prison , I looked at death in the face before , this is not anything that should be considered shameful! There should be no Courts Martial !

 

My views are my views , I dont look at whats going on there in an American view , I look at whats going on there and see my people dying for what? We dont even use the fucking oil we captured! Al-Jezeera is using the liberal American media , the sympathy that our people see , they forget way too fast , for we live the good life, I am hoping that at least half of people dont forget the atrocities that the Arabs are committing! And let me tell you now, things are gonna get worse!

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I agree , where was the great moral outrage from the

peace loving Muslims of the world when that poor captured

Italian security guard was murdered on film by those heros of

Islam. I say put the boot to them and dont stop until they get the message...dont fuck with us.

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There are many of us that I believe feel as you do. Far TOO many americans have short term memory loss. They forget the meaning of words like, support, trust, patriotism, and lack the backbone to stand behind thier own convictions. We take freedom as an everyday occurance, one day we may awake and be the oppressed, and will they stand up then and support the fight to save themselves. The media survives because they create a following of sheep that believe what they are told, not for what they see and hear for themselves. thanks for allowing me to rant my opinion , but please belive in what your , yourself see and hear and ultimately feel in your hearts.
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I would agree that those actions do not fit the American idea of ethics but then again those actions may be all they understand. They may take kindness as weakness.

As it's been said, when in Rome do as the Romans do.

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What about the latest soldier that they caught and tied him to a truck and dragged him 22 miles. Those fucking people are very fortunate that I am not in charge or else we would have nuked the region long ago. We need to punish the cities in Iraq that harbor these zealots. If we kill enough people pretty soon they will start killing the zealots themselves to avoid our wrath. Two nuclear bombs ended the 2nd world war. One strategically placed one could end all of this busllshit in one day imho.  :devil:  :devil:  :devil:
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We don't need nukes.  We only need to go in with bulldozers and asphalt trucks and pave it.  We all know that's what is really needed.........more parking space!!

 

Seriously though, I agree.  We are definitely holding back and I say bullshit!  Let's go end this crap with the only thing they truly understand..........force.  FC is right. :bomb:  :bomb:  :bomb:  :bomb:  :bomb:

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Will the day come maybe twenty, thirty or forty years from now when we will look back on this war like we have on Vietnam and ask ourselves why we were involved and why so many fine young boys had to give their lives to satisfy the egos of some politicians?  This war is unfair and unjust just like Vietnam was and someday we'll see this more clearly as well.  We're suppose to be a nation of Christians.  Is this what Christ would want?  We must ask ourselves why the Arabs dislike us so much and then maybe we will see things differently.
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If the shoe were on the other foot...the Arab Islamists having overwhelming military power over the Judeo-Christian nations of the world...Would they be having this debate about fairness? Would we be experiencing mercy at the end of there sword? Or, would they trample us and our children as they have shown they are so prone to do over and over again. Perhaps we did not need to go into Iraq at the precise moment we did...but it was just a matter of time while Saddam festered and obtained the ability to inflict damage on us..I guess everyone has forgotten about the ten years of lobbing missles at our planes or the endless shell game of inspections and denials ect.. Off the soap box now.
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Human rights are reserved for humans. Human beings do not burn, chop up, drag around, and hang the corpses of other humans.

 

If things are so bad now we've taken charge, why don't we dust off Saddam, say we're sorry, put him back in charge, take our oil, and get out? See how many people get upset once he starts killing and torturing his own people again.

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Will the day come maybe twenty, thirty or forty years from now when we will look back on this war like we have on Vietnam and ask ourselves why we were involved and why so many fine young boys had to give their lives to satisfy the egos of some politicians?  This war is unfair and unjust just like Vietnam was and someday we'll see this more clearly as well.  We're suppose to be a nation of Christians.  Is this what Christ would want?  We must ask ourselves why the Arabs dislike us so much and then maybe we will see things differently.

In the immortal words of Dan Ackroyd, "Seeking the Vision, you ignorant slut!". In 20 or 30 years we will either look back and admire the brilliance of establishing a democracy in the former snakepit of the Arab world or we will be kicking ourselves for letting the chance pass us by. If you want to know why the Arabs dislike us ponder this Jackass,  it's because we're an attractive nuisance to their medieval existence (how you gonna' keep 'em down at the Mosque, after they've seen New York?). BTW, I suppose after Pearl Harbor we should have had a nationwide sit-in to asess how we had offended the Japanese? This sort of cowardly attitude from citizens of the world's most free and most powerful nation makes me sick.

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Steve;

All I can say is right on BRO!!

One thing you can say about Saddam--he knew how to control his own people--I really don't think after 30 plus years they understand any other way.

From what I have seen of their religion--it isn't leading them down the path to understanding and kindness.

As far as Viet Nam the onlymistake I can see that we made was doing it half-assed.

I don't know if we should have been there or not-BUT once we got there we should have kicked some major ass and came on home!

One more time--God Bless and support our boys over there!

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Any serious study of the history of the middle-east will reveal the utter brutality of the muslim 'culture'. Historically, every hundred years or so, they must be ruthlessly put down. Failure to do this will ineveitably result in the surrounding lands being overrun by them. Their alledged 'culture' is completely barbaric and without any redeeming qualities. Even their food is shit! Nobody goes out for 'arabian' food. As with all barbarians, total brutality is ALL they understand. I say turn Iraq into a parking lot. If you turn the top six inches or so of sand into glass, you can still drill through it to get to the oil below. There is a reason Ishmail was called 'the wild man'. Not politically correct and proud of it!
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Their alledged 'culture' is completely barbaric and without any redeeming qualities.

The only chance we have of not being barbaric ourselves is by not sinking to their level.  That includes torture.

 

I, for one, am horrified by what those prison guard idiots did.  Not because they made the bad guys feel bad, or embarrassed, or whatever.

 

I'm horrified that they did this and put other lives at risk.  How many people will be tortured or murdered in "retaliation"?  How does this help us to win over the hearts of the native people in country who may or may not be looking out for coalition forces?

 

No, this was a stupid move.

 

And if you're going to do these awful things (we're supposed to be the good guy here, right?) then for God's sake don't photograph it like it's for a damn scrapbook.

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Thornbury..the guards actions were stupid at best.

But and it is a very big but...you will never win the hearts and minds of the majority of people in the mideast, the Jackasses

rejoice whenever anyone but one of them is killed!!! There culture and religion is so diametrically opposed to what most of the West considers reasonable that common ground is just about impossible to find.

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Let's get it right.

 

There are only two kinds of arab's...

 

1)  Push start - Dot in the forehead...

 

2)  Pull start - Wearing a towel...

 

Either take the country and oil - Or use a nuke to turn it into a giant sheet of glass...

 

F'em.

 

Thanks, Danny

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The only thing those guards did wrong was "not finish the job" , maybe your forgetting these are the assholes who raped there own women, killed there own children , killed our troops , gassed the Kurds and Iranians!

 

Sympathy ,,,, fuck! Look up Sympathy in the dictionary , its in between Shit & Syphylis!

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The difference between the United States military and a bunch of towel heads jumping up and down while waving RPGs and AK-47s is DISCIPLINE.

 

Our military is built on discipline, and our country is built on rule of law.

 

I don't like the muslim fanatics any more than you do, BUT we must never lose discipline and rule of law.

:cool:

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these people Prisoners of War, and as such, afforded treatment in accordance with the Geneva Conventions??
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one of bush's reasons for going over there and taking out saddam was to stop this kind of shit...Yes they killed and burned our guy's, BUT that was a mob of ordinary citizens that are pissed because we have become invaders of their country...I don't condone what they did to our people...WE ARE SUPPOSED to be the civilized people, not to be acting just like saddam was...One of our guy's over there out and out murdered someone, he was tried and then discharged without any punishment...WHAT? That's just fucking wrong...

Have any of you seen the military report on the abuse? Here's an exerpt...

 

5.  (S) That between October and December 2003, at the Abu Ghraib Confinement Facility (BCCF), numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees.  This systemic and illegal abuse of detainees was intentionally perpetrated by several members of the military police guard force (372nd Military Police Company, 320thMilitary Police Battalion, 800th MP Brigade), in Tier (section) 1-A of the Abu Ghraib Prison (BCCF).  The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness statements (ANNEX 26) and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence.  Due to the extremely sensitive nature of these photographs and videos, the ongoing CID investigation, and the potential for the criminal prosecution of several suspects, the photographic evidence is not included in the body of my investigation.  The pictures and videos are available from the Criminal Investigative Command and the CTJF-7 prosecution team.  In addition to the aforementioned crimes, there were also abuses committed by members of the 325th MI Battalion, 205th MI Brigade, and Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC).  Specifically, on 24 November 2003, SPC Luciana Spencer, 205th MI Brigade, sought to degrade a detainee by having him strip and returned to cell naked.  (ANNEXES 26 and 53)  

 

6.  (S) I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:  

 

a.  (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;

 

b.  (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;

 

c.  (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;

 

d.  (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;

 

e.  (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women’s underwear;

 

f.   (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;

 

g.  (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;

 

h.  (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;

 

i.   (S) Writing “I am a Rapest”  (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;

 

j.   (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee’s neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;

 

k.  (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

 

l.   (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;

 

m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.

 

(ANNEXES 25 and 26)  

 

7.(U) These findings are amply supported by written confessions provided by several of the suspects, written statements provided by detainees, and witness statements.  In reaching my findings, I have carefully considered the pre-existing statements of the following witnesses and suspects

 

 

 

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001/

 

 

Some of the military people over trhere are no fuckin better than the enemy...

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The difference between the United States military and a bunch of towel heads jumping up and down while waving RPGs and AK-47s is DISCIPLINE.

 

Our military is built on discipline, and our country is built on rule of law.

 

I don't like the muslim fanatics any more than you do, BUT we must never lose discipline and rule of law.

:cool:

You are right! As much as they deserve it, we need OUR discipline. United we stand!!! :bthumb:

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If in fact we were fighting a war against people like ourselves , I would be just as appalled as some of you are now! But In fact we are not fighting a war against humans such as us!

 

I take it no one here has ever been in a U.S. prison before? and if you have it must have been a low level prison , because shit goes on inside maximum prisons like that all the time, except its the prisoners doing the offenses!

 

Fortunately we are in America and you guys can believe in a fantasyland and thats OK , but I say they dont have shit coming, as a matter of fact why house them in prison at , execute them publicly, that kind of exposure sends a clear and conside message , I just wish we had public executions here, the same meesage would get out!

 

Of course being sentenced to death here , means you'll live a long life , because our liberals want the asshole to hound there victims for eternity!

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When in our history has America ever faced an enemy that adhered to the “The Queens Rules of Engagement?”  War is not a gentlemen’s sport, rather, war is a dirty, ugly face to face encounter of desperate men killing, butchering and maiming each other.  Here in America we sit back and watch the evening news as we observe our high tech military of today slash through any resistance on the way to the Iraqi capital.  Any opposition is crushed and enemy troops melt away.  What we have proven to the world is that large standing armies have gone the way of the castle and the fortress, they simply are no longer effective.  

 

The Arabs are fighting much like other third word peoples we have fought with small guerilla bands striking here and there.  You see, conventional war, our (the American publics) image of war, no longer applies.  Guerilla wars are the ugliest and dirtiest and can go on forever, by their nature they are flavored with atrocities.  We are dealing with an illiterate population united within their belief to a just cause – a holy war.  They are fighting the infidels, us.

 

Many suggest that the U.S. is not equipped to fight such encounters, I disagree.  Look at WWII in the south pacific, every island was one guerilla encounter after another.  Ever wonder why we faced over 20,000 Japs on Iwo Jima and took only 20 prisoners.  Were the Japs that dedicated or were we that merciless?  On Okinawa there were 200,000 Japs, about 200 prisoners, Japs were jumping off the cliffs rather then face the “Marine Invaders” known for their ruthless hard hearts.  None of these islands were taken by large sweeping mass maneuvers, rather they were taken tree by tree, hole by hole, with those who were alive using their own dead as sand bags because they were piled so high.  

 

You may have heard the phrases “To the last man,” “Death before Dishonor,” “It’s a good day to die,” “They were expendable,” “No Mercy,” “We never leave our wounded on the battlefield,” etc.  In Viet Nam the entire experience was a guerilla war, almost impossible to tell the VC from the village populations.  Booby traps everywhere, ambushes, Marine patrols laying dead in their fighting positions, to the last man, all butchered and any survivors tortured and mutilated.  Finding that place deep, deep down inside where one is able to tap into extreme meanness, anger, and ruthlessness.  

 

Hue City was doorway-by-doorway, street-by-street, and building-by-building.  Death and savageness everywhere.  They first attempted the current policy in Iraqi of winning the hearts and minds of the people in Viet Nam.  Imagine a Marine squad helping a ville and then from out of nowhere being hit by an attack by these same people and ending up killing many of those poor bastards they were helping only a few minutes before.  Win the hearts and minds – or if they won’t let you simply kill them.  Imagine the confusion and the hatred that develops with these young Marines.  

 

What America has going for it in war is that we Americans are the most ferocious, cold blooded, hard hearted breed you can imagine.  Never forget that we are respected not because we are pussies, rather we are respected because we are the most feared nation in history.  I know you liberals will say that one cannot rule out of fear.  To the enemy our niceness is weakness.  Our enemy will never be open to our way of life until they are crushed to the ground.

 

I have been against this war, I am against all war.  Now that we are involved, however, I know that war cannot be won half heartedly.  Every war has atrocities, from both sides.  

 

Today I am a kind gentle man who believes in peace, but not at any cost.  Excuse me if I laugh at what America is being called today.  When it comes down to it a few loose cannons took some skin flicks and slapped a few prisoners around.  Oh, dear; we are monsters.  

 

Always remember this.  In the Nam not a single Marine Grunt came home when the POW’s came home – why, because they were hated and feared by the enemy.  They were tortured and mutilated and many were left in the field to demoralize the other Marines.  It just pissed us off.  

 

What if the worse thing an American POW in Iraqi could expect to happen to them was to have their skin flicks placed on the internet, instead of torture and death.  Get real.

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aaron;

I jumped in and shot out a personal opinion on this subject.

Thinking about it -you probably are right.

I would think most of the people we have in our present day military are there because of a sense of duty, and pride, and are appaled at what happened.

I would assume they take their duties and responsibilities very seriously,and 99.9 percent of them try to honor the oath they took when they enlisted. I may be naieve, but I would bet a lot of our military still believe in the code of the warrior, it just seems to fit the psyche of a true fighting spirit.

It is just too bad the prison guards got caught up in what they probably assumed were actions that they could get away with and not face any consequences. Probably a good thing they were found out and will be disciplined.

These type of actions can't be condoned or approved of--I still have a hard time convincing myself that it is wrong-but it probably is.

I will say - I think we are going to have to re-assess some of our thinking and codes of honor and ethics in the upcoming years.

Seems like it is going to come to a them or us time shortly, and I would just as soon see them laying in the blood puddle at the end of the day.

I'm just afraid that the enemy we are facing will continue to exploit our morals to their advantage.  Eventually we may have to decide the only way to fight them is their way--no remorse, and no morality.

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