mplate Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 At least, this year, they acknowledge that there are other factors in play. New Hampshire, which does not have helemet laws, has a fatality rate of 3 fatalities per 10,000 motorcycle riders, while Mississippi, which does have helmet laws, has a fatality rate of 20. Also, although the article doesn't say so, if you look at the graph of fatalities, it appears that, for the first time in 10 years, the number of fatalities per 10,000 rider did not increase. Here's the article Annual article on motorcycle fatalities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caronti Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 At least, this year, they acknowledge that there are other factors in play. New Hampshire, which does not have helemet laws, has a fatality rate of 3 fatalities per 10,000 motorcycle riders, while Mississippi, which does have helmet laws, has a fatality rate of 20. Also, although the article doesn't say so, if you look at the graph of fatalities, it appears that, for the first time in 10 years, the number of fatalities per 10,000 rider did not increase. Here's the article Annual article on motorcycle fatalities Intersesting Mike...Thanks for the update...Fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJ Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) I notice that are saying that the deaths could become a middle-aged item. As a side note.. I just got my endorsement last year... I rode for 26 years with no endorsement (always have had my insurance and plates). The reason I got mine was that Michigan changed the law. It used to be a $25 fine to be caught riding with no endorsement.. Now they impound your bike and have a huge fine. So I decided it was time to get the endorsement.. It was no issue since I was able to ride a bike. Back to the point of my post.... When I went for the road test I could not believe the guys that were there. There was about 20 people there ahead of me for the road course and about 14 of them were in their 40's . Out of that number it looked like 8 or so of them had brand new bikes and had never ridden before. I saw three fail their test right away because they couldn't keep their feet on the pegs when going through cones and such. I was completely surprised. I think alot of guys saw " Wild Hogs" and figured it was time to get a bike. As I was waiting my turn another guy pulled up and proceeded to dump his bike right beside me. He only used the front brake in the gravel parking lot. I figured he was gonna fail also.. but his test was after mine.. so I don't know. I can see it becoming a middle-age thing for awhile.. until the movie is forgotten and the "new" guys quit buying the bikes. Of course it is not a bad thing for anyone to buy a bike.. it was just a shock to see so many "older" guys that could not ride. I thought everyone could MJ Edited March 27, 2008 by MikeJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potter Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I think wearing a helmet is a wise move, just not for me. I wouldn't wear one if the state gave me a choice and don't think anyone should tell you to. If I want my brains spilled all over the highway, that's my business. Next I won't be able to have any firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallRider Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 You gotta do what's best for you and yours . . . for some it's riding with a helmet . . . for others it's not . . . either way it should be a personal choice. There's only so much the State can do to protect me from myself. It had been 30+ years since I had last ridden and when I got interested in the Chief. My last ride as a college kid was going back up to school and watching the rider in front of me get hit in the middle of the intersection when a driver blew through a stop sign on our right and this poor kid t-boned the car. I sold my ride the next week. Fast forward . . . I'm interested in the Chief, so I took the MSC and was glad I did . . . worked out all the rust in my riding skills and learned some new ones (who says an old dog can't learn a few new tricks?) . . . then bought "The Iron Beast". During the final road exam, I watched one of the guys make his emergancy stop, lock up and fly smack dab over the handlebars. I'm sure he bruised his ego more than anything, but he was done - automatic fail. I was wearing a half helmet during the course, and now wear a full-face helmet. Just makes me feel more comfortable - and it sure as hell keeps me warm on those 28 degree morning rides to the ferry in the winter. All in all, I'd wear a lid whether there was a helmet law or not . . . but I'd prefer it be MY choice and not some state legislature's decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebird77clone Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I'd always said that I would wear nothing less than a full.. but now have the lid and love it. The full face on cold mornings is a royal pain. It fogs up, and if you crack the visor enough that it doesn't fog, then your face is freezing anyway. So, If I gotta wear a facemask anyway, I'd rather just have the lid. Just hope it never sees any action eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Iron 465 Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 There's only so much the State can do to protect me from myself. I think wearing a helmet is a wise move, just not for me. I wouldn't wear one if the state gave me a choice and don't think anyone should tell you to. If I want my brains spilled all over the highway, that's my business. I don't see it so much as the state protecting you from yourself...though I guess that's certainly a part of it. Sister-in-law...massive head injury...basically a turnip and insurance runs out so brother divorces and she becomes a ward of the state. Now all state taxpayers foot the bill for her ongoing health care... That is my valid argument for helmet laws...I could care less if anyone wears one or not but when I have to ultimately pay part of the bill with my tax dollars (instead of schools, etc.) then it does become a concern... Personally, I guess being a pilot, it's like the 5-point harness, vest and flight helmet when strapping one on, I'd feel totally naked getting on a bike without a helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DienCaiDau Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 (edited) I always see these "reports" about helmet's and if we should wear one. I know a helmet is going to provide some protection, although limited. What gets me is the helmet advocates crying about how much it cost's the tax payers. What about those cage's that have cars...convertibles (place a gasp here!)? What about the tax payers paying for them when they are in accidents. (Why don't they advocate helmet laws for people that own a convertible?) That's a report I'd like to see, as in comparison to (all) the studies for the bikers and helmets. I need to say this... I did multiple tours in Vietnam and no one yelled and screamed about me not wearing a helmet then... so, why now? (I never wore a helmet cause I was 127 lbs and no helmet they had would fit me...always felt like I was top heavy and would fall over!) Edited March 29, 2008 by DienCaiDau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabondjpm Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 (edited) Let me preface this post with: I support the choice to wear or not to wear. I live in IL and there isn't a helmet law here. I own and wear a full face, three-quarter, and half helmets, just not all at the same time, when riding in IL. "Southern States among those with the highest death rates" – Is that really news? If you can ride twice as often in southern states as in northern it stands to reason, with all other factors identical, that this would be true. They even spell it out, "States with a year-round riding season for motorcycles are among those reposting higher deaths rates from accidents." "Death rates from motorcycle crashes have risen steadily since… about a decade ago…" Yea, so has the number of motorcycle registration. With more riders the NUMBER of deaths is likely to increase even as the PROPORTION of deaths stays constant, again with all other factors the same. "As deaths have increased, so has the proportion of older riders killed." So baby boomers are dying on motorcycles? Let's look at this one second. Baby boomers, the largest generational cohort, are at an age where they have the most disposable income for toys. Many rode, or knew some respected parental figure that did, many years ago. Media has promoted motorcycling as a "rebel" thing to do and they want to break out of their mundane life. Some have decided that motorcycling is something they want to do. They buy their first, or first in years, and don't properly educate themselves before they start to ride. Unfortunately the learning curve is unforgiving and situations happen. "Half of those killed (the 42% killed while not wearing a helmet) lost control and crashed without colliding with another vehicle." – I refer to my previous comment on education, "… (new riders) don't properly educate themselves before they start to ride. Unfortunately the learning curve is unforgiving and situations happen." "There are a lot of factors at work here," said Russ Radar with the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. "You can't look at just the fatality rate of any given state and make judgments based entirely on that." – This is likely the smartest and even-handed thing I read in the entire article. Bravo for that, even if it is at the end. Thank you, mplate for bringing this here for discussion because articles like this anger me. They are not based on objective views only what the reporter wants to write. Until we fund another Hurt Report, currently being spearheaded by the AMA, people will continue to voice their opinions based on bias views and we'll never get anywhere on this issue. I challenge everyone to look at information like this critically in the future, where the data comes from and how it fits, so we can start to silence ignorant critics with undisputed, grounded views instead of, "It's my body and I should be able to do what I want." As true as that may be, the government and the mob don't care. Ride safe, Vagabond http://www.amadirectlink.com/study/ Edited March 29, 2008 by Vagabondjpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCH Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Just hope it never sees any action eh? Gotta agree with you on that one there! Hopefully, a helmet is an insurance policy that is never used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCH Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 About 42% of riders killed were not wearing helmets. Helmets must be deadly. According to these statistics, 58% of the riders killed were wearing helmets. A slick statistician could warp this to prove that you are less likely to die in a motorcycle crash if you were not wearing a helmet. It sounds to me like the gummint is trying to kill us off by forcing us to wear deadly helmets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary2Wheels Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 ....it's a very loaded question,as to the statistics.When I was a kid I'd see my Dad's slow reaction times,and poor eyesight...and say to myself 'SHIT!...That's gonna happen to me?'. Well...it has.Sure I've got more experience,and under standing of the beast and it's quirks......but I don't have the strength,vision and quick reaction times that I had as a kid to help me out. I'll choose the helmet..even though I like an open face with a SNELL rating...and ride like I'm not gonna need it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I don't see it so much as the state protecting you from yourself...though I guess that's certainly a part of it. Sister-in-law...massive head injury...basically a turnip and insurance runs out so brother divorces and she becomes a ward of the state. Now all state taxpayers foot the bill for her ongoing health care... That is my valid argument for helmet laws...I could care less if anyone wears one or not but when I have to ultimately pay part of the bill with my tax dollars (instead of schools, etc.) then it does become a concern... Personally, I guess being a pilot, it's like the 5-point harness, vest and flight helmet when strapping one on, I'd feel totally naked getting on a bike without a helmet. 1. With respect for the pain your family has suffered, the head trauma wards are also populated by people who were wearing helmets. 2. the "valid argument" is just as much an indictment of the holes in our medical insurance system. 3. It also speaks to the hypocracy of a society that mandates life at all costs, regardless the loss of quality and the imposed burden but doesn't seem to think it's woth the time to sort out how we are going to pay for our platitudes. I wear extraordinary personal protective equipment in my line of work too. Insist on complete adherence in my people. Some of it I heartily agree with, some of it is hokum, profit driven gizmos and liability dodges. Too many differences betwwen my vocational safety method and my avocational safety method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potter Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I don't see it so much as the state protecting you from yourself...though I guess that's certainly a part of it. Sister-in-law...massive head injury...basically a turnip and insurance runs out so brother divorces and she becomes a ward of the state. Now all state taxpayers foot the bill for her ongoing health care... That is my valid argument for helmet laws...I could care less if anyone wears one or not but when I have to ultimately pay part of the bill with my tax dollars (instead of schools, etc.) then it does become a concern... Personally, I guess being a pilot, it's like the 5-point harness, vest and flight helmet when strapping one on, I'd feel totally naked getting on a bike without a helmet. The government just bailed out the banks to the tune of 200 billion and your worried about me hospital bill?, please....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Iron 465 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 The government just bailed out the banks to the tune of 200 billion and your worried about me hospital bill?, please....... The government bailing out the banks was not the topic at hand...I'm pissed about a TON of things the government finances that is totally absurd in my opinion...that just wasn't what was being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dparch Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I notice that are saying that the deaths could become a middle-aged item. As a side note.. I just got my endorsement last year... I rode for 26 years with no endorsement (always have had my insurance and plates). The reason I got mine was that Michigan changed the law. It used to be a $25 fine to be caught riding with no endorsement.. Now they impound your bike and have a huge fine. So I decided it was time to get the endorsement.. It was no issue since I was able to ride a bike. Back to the point of my post.... When I went for the road test I could not believe the guys that were there. There was about 20 people there ahead of me for the road course and about 14 of them were in their 40's . Out of that number it looked like 8 or so of them had brand new bikes and had never ridden before. I saw three fail their test right away because they couldn't keep their feet on the pegs when going through cones and such. I was completely surprised. I think alot of guys saw " Wild Hogs" and figured it was time to get a bike. As I was waiting my turn another guy pulled up and proceeded to dump his bike right beside me. He only used the front brake in the gravel parking lot. I figured he was gonna fail also.. but his test was after mine.. so I don't know. I can see it becoming a middle-age thing for awhile.. until the movie is forgotten and the "new" guys quit buying the bikes. Of course it is not a bad thing for anyone to buy a bike.. it was just a shock to see so many "older" guys that could not ride. I thought everyone could MJ Mike, back in 1992 I took a basic 2 weekend long MSF course, the 1st Fri nite was all "classroom". The instructors asked everyone to come in with their riding gear so they could check out what you had and make sure it was proper to ride. About 20 folks in class, one guy, 40-ish, shows up fresh from the Harley Boutique, all brand new Harley stuff, leather clad helmet, jeans, gloves leather jackey and boots, had to have dropped close to a grand on the gear. The next day when we got out to ride for 1st time, this guy was petrified, wouldn't go faster than idle speed, handlebar wobbling like a kid just learning to ride a bicycle., eyes big as saucers. 2 instructors worked with the guy off to the side, this guy was in full panic mode and they had received his DOR within the hour and he was gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabondjpm Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I just got this news letter from MRF and thought I woudl include it. MRF E-MAIL NEWS Motorcycle Riders Foundation 236 Massachusetts Ave. NE Suite 510 Washington, DC 20002-4980 202-546-0983 (voice) 202-546-0986 (fax) http://www.mrf.org (website) April 1, 2008 Tiffany Latimer, MRF Public Relations Assistant E-mail: pr@mrf.org The Helmet Debate Rages On in the National Spotlight In recent days, the USA Today has devoted themselves to covering a major hot button issue with motorcyclists: Helmets. The helmet law debate was catapulted back into the national spotlight with an article last week that highlighted the increase of motorcycling fatalities in the past ten years. Since that original article, Vice President of Government Relations, Jeff Hennie defended why helmet laws have not proven to be the best course of action to save motorcyclist lives. The USA Today continued on with the subject of helmet laws and motorcycle fatalities today by featuring both sides of the story. "Our View on Helmet Laws: Motorcycle Madness," written by the USA Today highlighted the increase of motorcycle fatalities since Congress repealed its helmet policy in 1995. Like most things do, motorcycling has significantly increased in the US within that time frame used in the USA Today's view of helmet laws. MRF lobbyist, Jeff Hennie weighed in on the situation with his rebuttal "Opposing view: Helmet Laws don't work." Not only does this article discuss the proportionate increase in motorcycle deaths in the past ten years but goes on to explain why state helmet laws have not proven to be the most effective way to prevent fatalities. For more information on this subject, you can contact Jeff Hennie, V.P. of Government Relations at jeff@mrf.org or at 202-546-0983. To read these articles for yourself, check them out on the USA Today website. Today's articles: "Our view on helmet laws: Motorcycle madness" by USA Today http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/04/our-view-on-hel.html "Opposing view: Helmet Laws don't work" by Jeff Hennie http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/04/opposing-view-h.html Last week's article: "Motorcyclists deaths spike as helmet laws loosen" USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-0...nterstitialskip Ride safe, Vagabond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grease Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 (edited) At least, this year, they acknowledge that there are other factors in play. New Hampshire, which does not have helemet laws, has a fatality rate of 3 fatalities per 10,000 motorcycle riders, while Mississippi, which does have helmet laws, has a fatality rate of 20. Also, although the article doesn't say so, if you look at the graph of fatalities, it appears that, for the first time in 10 years, the number of fatalities per 10,000 rider did not increase. Here's the article Annual article on motorcycle fatalities I have no opinion on helmets but female passengers should ride topless! Edited April 2, 2008 by Grease Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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