Pop Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 "By John Wyckoff Motorcycle Product News April 2007 I am old enough to remember when Indian Motocycles were manufactured in Springfield, Mass. Even before there was a Harley-Davidson, there was Indian. I also remember when they went out of business. I believe that was in 1953. In its heyday, Indian was considered the most reliable motorcycle, won the most races and set the most records. We love to live with nostalgia. We were delighted when Anthony Hopkins stared in the movie The World's Fastest Indian. The film got rave reviews, and Mr. Hopkins showed his talent as a great actor, but ever since the original factory closed, the Indian name has been used, abused, dragged through the mud and trampled. Undaunted, the name seems to be impossible to kill. Now another company has surfaced. They own the name and have secured property to make the new Indian motorcycle in King's Mountain, North Carolina. Their claim is that the bikes will be available to ship sometime in '07. Any bets? " Pop is goin to play a little Baccarat tomorrow night at Foxwoods and I'll sure take the odds against the banker over the odds of KM in '07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldev Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I believe they already stated '08 a few weeks back, didn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 Yup. Which just shows ta go ya how much "buzz" they have generated in the motorcycle press when a guy like Wyckoff is quoting dated info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldev Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 He must be way behind the times...he didn't get the memo that they were built in Gilroy, Ca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Resort Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Yup. Which just shows ta go ya how much "buzz" they have generated in the motorcycle press when a guy like Wyckoff is quoting dated info.Hey Pop, please don't take this as an attack because it is not. But will you look at the date; April 2007. That means he wrote it at least 8 weeks prior to that cover date. And the guy makes a number of mistakes about the history of the brand. At very least the order in which events happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 Mike yer fighting my battle for me. That's what I mean about buzz. If the buzz were out there it wouldn't stop these guys from mangling the history but there might be lass of that mangling and there would sure be more correct history reported. By the by, not for nuthin but Pop does occasionally surf the interwebs and I has on more than one occasion fell into some goofy motorcyle web site or discussion group or whathaveyou. I bring this to the fore because on some of these occasions I have found Indian threads that were more goofy fractured historys by the unclean and then... Lo and Behold... comes a voice of reason to set the record straight. This fellow posts accurate history of Gilroy and in the more current threads he waxes accurate about KM. I enjoy them threads on them boards on accounta sooner or later he pisses some jackleg off and things get all catty and then everybody moves on. You haven't come across any a them have ya MIKE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aikenscout Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) Made me think about the fact I haven't cruised Indian's website in about 3 months. That led me to the next thought............... why haven't I? because.............. nothing really there, and the odds of something new showing up even in 3 months is slim. So comes the point, sorta/kinda what Pop has been saying, even if they were putting up little trinkets or pearls about Indian, or some little updates like "New Flash"..."After extensive R&D we have selected Brembo brakes for the new Chief - They will be custom made for us to our higher quality standards with a warbonnet cast in the body" or any thing else. Maybe a press release to say............ We have nothing to say. That in itself would be something I suppose. Again, I know already the usual answers/posts to what I said, but ya gotta think outside of this forum of us types. What about Joe Schmuckatelli out there who isn't on any Indian forum, or any other motorcycle type info outlet. Hell, I didn't know Gilroy existed till 02 for crissakes. They weren't whizbangs on getting the word out either. I don't live that sheltered of a life, but with no dealer within a hundred miles, how the hell would I have found out. I don't know. Maybe they are a lot smarter then anyone gives em credit for, we just be ignent. One more thing, I took the time to sign up on that website. TWICE. Have yet to get one damn thing. I would think that if someone had the interest and took the effort to go that far would be courted just a little bit. At least a spam email saying "get ready to ride", or any damn thing Edited August 31, 2007 by aikenscout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jag1046 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Before you guys slam on him much more... John passed away about 6 weeks ago. He was a good man and did a lot for the powersports industry. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 Jag, from where I sit nobody was slamming the guy. The thread is a debate about the condition of KM's efforts and the limited understanding of Indian history as a matter of general knowledge. It's right and good that he left friends defending his memory but in this case it's the state of Indians' flow of information to the whole motorcycle community that needs defending (and improving), not John Wyckoff. Sorry if your takeaway was that I was dissing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Resort Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Jag, from where I sit nobody was slamming the guy. The thread is a debate about the condition of KM's efforts and the limited understanding of Indian history as a matter of general knowledge. It's right and good that he left friends defending his memory but in this case it's the state of Indians' flow of information to the whole motorcycle community that needs defending (and improving), not John Wyckoff. Sorry if your takeaway was that I was dissing him. Yep, no slamming going on at all. Just the discussion of a subject that can be looked at from a number of perspectives. Making a mistake is not a slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jag1046 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) Sorry, I had not had my first cup when I wrote that this morning. I agree with you both about the misinformation and such.. As you are both aware my history with Indian Goes way BACK!!! I can tell you of many heated discussions John Wycoff and I had about Indian and thier history!! But the one thing we all agree on is Indian was always an Inovator not a follower and I hope that they become such again!!! Pop and LR I also have the utmost respect for both of you!! Thank you for taking the time to correct me. John Edited August 31, 2007 by jag1046 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdog Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Rebirth?, Whaddya callit when baby is overdue? I guess I have been missing some threads and you guys are cross threading all over the place. I thought I saw a reference to this elsewhere but then - I lost it. So just a little ditty here... But to answer the topic question as best I can in keeping with the spirit of the question ... according to that article (excerpted in the opening of this post) which I read and some other supporting read Indian history.... There was a birth in 1901. Since the 1950's there have been still births and miscarriages. 1998 was a premature birth. It seems to me that what we have here is about 1,000 midwives and pediatricians telling us when the baby should be born - yet no one is in possession of menstrual facts and calendars. Meanwhile there are a few running around masturbating and ejaculating all over the place claiming to be/know the father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 I guess I have been missing some threads and you guys are cross threading all over the place. I thought I saw a reference to this elsewhere but then - I lost it. So just a little ditty here... But to answer the topic question as best I can in keeping with the spirit of the question ... according to that article (excerpted in the opening of this post) which I read and some other supporting read Indian history.... There was a birth in 1901. Since the 1950's there have been still births and miscarriages. 1998 was a premature birth. It seems to me that what we have here is about 1,000 midwives and pediatricians telling us when the baby should be born - yet no one is in possession of menstrual facts and calendars. Meanwhile there are a few running around masturbating and ejaculating all over the place claiming to be/know the father. Will you please open with a warning when imagry is involved in your posts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Resort Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Will you please open with a warning when imagry is involved in your posts! Something Pop and I can agree on unequivocally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Resort Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 But I did find it interestinger that Pop did not take this little dodad to his startup post in this here thread So once again the Indian name has changed hands. This time it's owned by an English company with a long history and a track record of re-launching brands. Their last success was Chris-Craft boats. Unlike their predecessors, this new Indian motorcycle company has brought some very qualified experts on board who truly understand both the V-Twin market and the motorcycle market as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdog Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Will you please open with a warning when imagry is involved in your posts! Sheesh - I was just tryin' ta keep up with the man!!! I was stickin with the suggested imagery! Oh nevermind Fugum. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 OK, I'll bite. Man you got my number today. I might be makin myself a liar (first time for everything) but I don't think any of my KM rants have faulted the focus on engineering. The building a gold watch reference I made elsewhere is construction slang for knowing when good is good, but even then there's a lot to be said for a gold watch. As far as the actual quote, I'll take it at face value. I hope that it's true. John Wyckoff would have known a qualified expert in the motorcycle industry if e saw one whether he was fuzzy on Indian history or not. I can pick out the best and brightest in my field without knowing the particulars of the place they work. Stands to reason he would know too. Nope, I won't fault KM the engineering foundation but we got another sayin out in the yard. You can't put nine wimmin in a room for a month and make a baby. You can engineer yourself out of a profit margin. I can't imagine the flights of engineering excess that more than a dozen sliderule jockeys brainstorming up on King Mountain this long coulda come up with . The mind boggles. Personally, Pop would like to hope that whatever the magical machine is that finally rolls out the door is a sweet looking reliable Seiko and not a jewel encrusted reliable Movado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdog Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 You can engineer yourself out of a profit margin. I can't imagine the flights of engineering excess that more than a dozen sliderule jockeys brainstorming up on King Mountain this long coulda come up with . The mind boggles. Personally, Pop would like to hope that whatever the magical machine is that finally rolls out the door is a sweet looking reliable Seiko and not a jewel encrusted reliable Movado. Absolutley no disagreement with the sentiment and sayings. I do differ in the application. There is no profit margin - not yet anyway. You can only have a "margin" - gross, net or otherwise if you are selling something and have accounted for costs, expenses and revenues. I would call what you are referring to as investment or "sunk" or up front cost. All currently out of the owners (and I suspect "other"investor(s)). These are the things we do to design/develop the product, specs and all thatthen needs to have delivery chains to market. Obviously followed in close parallel by a production plan and a marketing plan, etc.. - since it seems we all agree that theoretically they didn't have to go far to produce "a motorcycle". We may disagree a bit on how far they had to go to produce "The Motorcycle" that they want to bring them those margins. These up front costs would be being tracked as well and are more likely applied to a "payback" model. I for one am happy they have and/or have found deep pockets. Because there is needed a lot of time, money and blood, sweat and tears - up front to get the job done. I mean after all - it is not just us they gott put up with and "Get it by" - LOL Could be wrong here - wouldn't be the first ever - but I think they are on the best (and in many ways the only) path they could be on. That is research, plan, invest, tweak, execute (with little tweaks inside each of those). We will still all "believe it when we see it". But oh wouldn't it be fun to really know what is going on in there right now - not just what they "leak"? Makes us all cranky not to know. I guess I am just an optomist but I am hoping in the end - Pop, Maldev, Blackdog, Last Resort, stu, badndn, Brock and on and on to everyone in Indian Nation are gonna look back at some point as say "So THAT's how they did it" (More'n likely arguing about it along the way - laced with "I heard's" and "I saw's"). Maybe we can all meet at Love Ride and head cross country to Laconia - stopping for beers and arguing along the way as to how they got there!!! LOL I firmly believe that there are many things that I (or anyone else on any board)don't know that they do know or are learning real fast because they have the money and current drive to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paolabob Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Same disscussion different spin. Until they roll out this two wheel goddess of the v-twin world this is all we got. Like was said before, just wish they would throw the world a bone and start beating some tom-toms. Then again maybe they are affraid of too much exposure and having to admit that their baby is UGLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdog Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Then again maybe they are affraid of too much exposure and having to admit that their baby is UGLY. Good point(s) but - I haven't seen any ugly babies - yet. In fact, what I saw looked a hell of a lot like the most beautifullest production American V-Twin motorcycles I have seen to date - ours. I have heard they "presold" 5 to the dreaded Champagne crew. I have heard they have deposits on nearly another 70 or so. That would be potential sales on premanufacturing hype (or "teasers"?) - without doing much - as many love to pointed out - of 10% of their stated goal for first year production. And as we are all painfully aware - they haven't built a friggin thing. In fact, wasn't that what Pop was asking for - more of that? On his other thread analogy of the TB drug driving infrasturcture buildout for delivery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldev Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 At least a spam email saying "get ready to ride", or any damn thing That's pretty damn funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebird77clone Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Show me the bikes. or the boobies. Them's good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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