The buck....

[Gary2Wheels]

..... maybe nobody remembers who said this.It was PRESIDENT Harry S. Truman.He had a sign on his desk for all to see,depicting his responsibility to the American people while he was at the helm.Accountability was the issue.

Since Bush has been in office,I've seen a lot of Texas style strutting,over compensating behavior,control of truthful information carefully predigested as news releases,generally piss poor comprehension of world cultures unless the wise men of the cabinet have some vested interest in the area in question..and generally hitting the ground at a crawl,after the country taking major hits.

Sorry,but that's how this American :unclesam: see the picture.

BTW,I spent over 25 years in state govt here,starting under Nelson Rockefeller's administration.Government has the potential to serve us all well,when we demand it.

 

RIDE SAFE....LIVE LONG  :wave:

[Pop]

Gary, wake up.

It's clear as glass that we don't demand our public servants any particular accountability. You still hear plenty of folks get starry eyed over Nixon, the liar. On the other side, a cacaphony of voices complains how much better off we would be if there wasn't term limits on Clinton, the liar.

We're governed wholesale by polished hucksters who read their lines and play their parts, create division and cast themselves as THE only answer, and when the wheels fall off, they have a bucket of reasons why something or someone else, most times someone that sits across the aisle from them is at fault. Lacking an enemy to blame, they rely on a machine that insures that they dodge the bullet. Having worked for Rockie, certainly you saw it when they crucified him for being a moderate. Many years of entrenchment and much technology has followed to further support the system.

 

There are few nations where individual responsibility is an expectation of leadership and a sincere personal effort is made to reflect on and improve from failure, or if the failure is significant to take responsibility by stepping down as a measure of recognition of the magnitude of the failure and as an act of personal integrity and leadership. This here sure ain't one of those countries.

 

If Brown had been canned or had the guts to resign early on the feds would have been able to move forward. He would have taken one for the team.   

I'm thinking patronage is for the purpose of not only rewarding a team player but in it's purest form, the appointee is a straw dog whose role is to collect a check and stay out of the way of the people who actually know what they are doing. Then, when something like Katrina comes along, he puts his head in the noose for G&C. Anymore, probably the result of power corrupting absolutely, these appointees actually think they are capable of running the show, and the furthest thing from their minds is taking the heat for the failure of their house.

Bush could put it to the American people that men like Brown were patronage appointees and that when he appointed Brown, he was continuing an ongoing perk of administration, a perk signed off on on both sides of the aisle. If the President put his hat in his hand and said, I made a mistake appointing my friend Brownie to a post of such importance, and now that we can all see the ramifications of the failed policy of patronage appointment, I'm going to review the various other appointments made by my administration before a disaster of a different kind exposes another Brown, that would ratchet down the hubbub. Were he to offer that, sure the dogs would howl and the bashers would bash, but this country would see  leadership at work.

 

I ain't holding my breath, but George may yet step up. You can see in his eyes, this mess is breaking his heart.

[Steve J]

 

Thing is, I don’t think it’s a Left vs Right issue..   Accountability is something that has been lacking in leadership for quite some time.  

 

I wasn’t around during the administrations of Harry and Ike.. but they seem like good examples of leader accountability from what I have read, been told by family, etc..  (lots of WW2 vets in the family..)

 

What seems strange is..  In the military, say a Navy ship runs aground on an uncharted obstruction..  Doesn’t matter who was on watch, at the helm, or scrubbin the squirrel in the shower...  The Captain of the ship / sub / barge / boat / raft is responsible, period... end of story.  When something like that happens the Captain usually pay for it with a minimum of a transfer to a desk job, usually a loss of command, essentially ending their career.  

 

In recent history as least, people don’t seem to hold our political leaders to even a remotely similar standard.   If political leaders to the same standard as the military leaders are held to.. I’d bet they’d make a lot smarter choices knowing their careers were performance based, with full accountability and no safety net..  Choices of appointments etc.. would be considered much more for performance rather than politics..

[Moon Killer]

You got to admit that a government position is pretty cushy with great benies for life. Any smart politico won't rock the boat.

A wise man once said  "People have the government they deserve".

One thing for sure govt. ain't gonna change itself & waiting for "the other guy" to do it may not be fruitful or worse, self serving.

But then I have to think that just bitching about it is much easier & leaves more time for riding.

[Gary2Wheels]

Gary, wake up.

It's clear as glass that we don't demand our public servants any particular accountability. You still hear plenty of folks get starry eyed over Nixon, the liar. On the other side, a cacaphony of voices complains how much better off we would be if there wasn't term limits on Clinton, the liar.

We're governed wholesale by polished hucksters who read their lines and play their parts, create division and cast themselves as THE only answer, and when the wheels fall off, they have a bucket of reasons why something or someone else, most times someone that sits across the aisle from them is at fault. Lacking an enemy to blame, they rely on a machine that insures that they dodge the bullet. Having worked for Rockie, certainly you saw it when they crucified him for being a moderate. Many years of entrenchment and much technology has followed to further support the system.

 

There are few nations where individual responsibility is an expectation of leadership and a sincere personal effort is made to reflect on and improve from failure, or if the failure is significant to take responsibility by stepping down as a measure of recognition of the magnitude of the failure and as an act of personal integrity and leadership. This here sure ain't one of those countries.

 

If Brown had been canned or had the guts to resign early on the feds would have been able to move forward. He would have taken one for the team.   

I'm thinking patronage is for the purpose of not only rewarding a team player but in it's purest form, the appointee is a straw dog whose role is to collect a check and stay out of the way of the people who actually know what they are doing. Then, when something like Katrina comes along, he puts his head in the noose for G&C. Anymore, probably the result of power corrupting absolutely, these appointees actually think they are capable of running the show, and the furthest thing from their minds is taking the heat for the failure of their house.

Bush could put it to the American people that men like Brown were patronage appointees and that when he appointed Brown, he was continuing an ongoing perk of administration, a perk signed off on on both sides of the aisle. If the President put his hat in his hand and said, I made a mistake appointing my friend Brownie to a post of such importance, and now that we can all see the ramifications of the failed policy of patronage appointment, I'm going to review the various other appointments made by my administration before a disaster of a different kind exposes another Brown, that would ratchet down the hubbub. Were he to offer that, sure the dogs would howl and the bashers would bash, but this country would see  leadership at work.

 

I ain't holding my breath, but George may yet step up. You can see in his eyes, this mess is breaking his heart.

Thanks Pop!...I needed that..Well OK,the political hucksters have control our country.So let's hold them accountable when they're not up to the job..

Seems like every election time,the same old games....talk about any thing but real home based national defense issues,like border control, or master planning.

Damn politicians...

 

RIDE SAFE....LIVE LONG :wave:

[Fugdbdt]

I once had an agent who commited fraud to close a deal.

 

Masterful - Awe inspiring fraud.

 

So perfect the only reason he was caught -

 

Was he left all the "revisions" on his laptop -

 

And IT found them...

 

When we bought the $1.2M mortgage back -

 

I never once attributed it as anyones fault but my own.

 

The warehouse company stated that since I took full responsibility and called their attention to it -

 

They were not going to cancel our account.

 

Seems most companies would play the "I didn't know" game and try to slip it back on...

 

Still have the softball bat -

 

The teeth marks are sentimental to me...

 

Thanks, Danny

[Pop]

George stepped up.

[Gary2Wheels]

....well OK.I have to hand it to him for stepping up,this afternoon to take responsibility for the muffup at FEMA and the poor fed response to the emergency.Owning the problem is the first step in recognizing there is a problem.....

The Federal Govt could now create an independent review and master planning process,calling on the best university thinkers ,to assess problems, and recommend solutions to the rebuiding of New Orleans and the Gulf coast.I'm guessing this has already been done many times over by city planners,and meteriogy people..... and NOAA,Architectural students and city planning students .

 

RIDE SAFE......LIVE LONG :wave:

[archer]

I once had an agent who commited fraud to close a deal.

 

Masterful - Awe inspiring fraud.

 

So perfect the only reason he was caught -

 

Was he left all the "revisions" on his laptop -

 

And IT found them...

 

When we bought the $1.2M mortgage back -

 

I never once attributed it as anyones fault but my own.

 

The warehouse company stated that since I took full responsibility and called their attention to it -

 

They were not going to cancel our account.

 

Seems most companies would play the "I didn't know" game and try to slip it back on...

 

Still have the softball bat -

 

The teeth marks are sentimental to me...

 

Thanks, Danny

I agree.So much bullshit could be stopped with a little eye for an eye mantality.Would really cut down on a lot of frivolouse lawsuits too. :cppl1

[XUXAW]

George stepped up.

Bush said. ''And to the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility"

 

As we live with the non-denial denial, we live with the irresponsible taking of responsibility.

 

Any serious taking of responsibility entails probing the error--its roots, its dimensions.  In Bush's case, this would entail:

 

Acknowledging that he routinely appointed crony incompetents to run FEMA and other federal agencies;

 

Acknowledging that this was the wrong thing to do;

 

Acknowledging that many terrible things happened as a result;

 

Acknowledging that he was otherwise occupied when the safety of America and Americans was at stake.

 

Anything less is pure blather.

[firebird77clone]

Next, the governor and mayor need to get canned.

 

personally, I would like to see some manslaughter charges brought against them.

[caronti]

Next, the governor and mayor need to get canned.

 

personally, I would like to see some manslaughter charges brought against them.

All the Mayor is saying now is he is tired of hearing helicoppters and wants to hear some Jazz. Thats the problem, he wants to party when there is work to be done. Get the shit right then party. The spin is already happening and the Mayor and govenor will side step any responsibility, you just wait and see... ...Catfish

[Big Al Spirit]

Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Why New Orleans Flooded

Phil Brennan, NewsMax.com

Tuesday, Sept. 13, 2005

A steel barge that came crashing into one of the levee walls, and not the failure of that levee to hold back an immense tidal wave, was to blame for much of the flooding that drowned parts of New Orleans.

 

Lying an average of seven feet below sea level, surrounded by the waters of Lake Ponchartrain, the Mississippi River and Lake Borgne, which separates Lake Pontchartrain from the Gulf of Mexico, and protected by a series of sinking levees, the city of New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen.

It happened on August 29, 2005, just as the city was breathing a collective sigh of relief that hurricane Katrina had not been as bad as it had been predicted to be.

It turned out to be far worse, not because of the destructive winds of a Category Four hurricane, but because three massive walls of water spurred by those winds inundated many parts of the city after the winds moved away.

As politicians play the blame game, many facts about the roots of the disaster have either been overlooked or deliberately ignored because they are inconvenient to those seeking to put the onus for the tragedy upon their political targets. One of them was the story behind the flood that turned a major disaster into a catastrophe of immense magnitude.

In a fact-filled retrospective that told the full story, the Wall Street Journal explained in great detail just what happened when much of the Big Easy became an adjunct of Lake Ponchartrain.

The Journal told the truth, but the truth hurts when you are seeking to put your spin on the assignment of blame. So the remainder of the media simply ignored a story the American people are entitled to know.

Facts Ignored and Not Investigated

Among the facts exposed of the Journal which the mainstream media has studiously ignored:

In two cases, storm driven water far higher than the levees were designed to hold back (up to 15 feet of tidal surge) overwhelmed them and went pouring down on parts of the city. According to the Journal, the waves inundated the mostly working-class eastern districts, home to 160,000 people. In some places, the water rose as fast as a foot per minute, survivors told the Journal. These levees did not break.

According to engineers, scientists, local officials and the accounts of nearly 90 survivors of Katrina interviewed by the Journal, the first of the three waves swept from the north out of Lake Pontchartrain.

The wave of undetermined height poured over 15-foot high levees along the Industrial Canal, which were several feet lower than others in the central areas of the city. Wrote the Journal: "About the same time, a similar wave exploded without warning across Lake Borgne, which separates Lake Pontchartrain from the Gulf of Mexico. It filled the lake, engulfed its surrounding marshes, raced over levees and poured into eastern New Orleans."

Another huge wave came across Lake Pontchartrain in the north. It sent a steel barge ramming through the Industrial Canal, a major shipping artery that cuts north to south through the city, possibly creating a breach that grew to 500 feet, letting water pour into nearby neighborhoods of the city's Ninth Ward.

The barge's remains were found lying on the bottom of the gap. An early eyewitness reported seeing the barge smash through the levee. His report was never followed up by the media.

Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that break was particularly surprising because one of the levee breaks was "along a section that was just upgraded."

"It did not have an earthen levee," Dr. Penland told the New York Times. "It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick."

Vital repairs for which a whopping $600 million had been appropriated by the federal government were stopped after residents of the Ninth Ward complained about the noise created by the repair project and sued to halt it.

The Industrial Canal, now operated and maintained mostly by the federal government, which the Journal described as "the area's defining presence since it was built in the 1920s," has been damaged by the passage of time and heavy use.

Barges and ships were routinely delayed because of growing traffic levels and the lock was "literally falling apart at the hinges" in 1998, according to a U.S. Army Corps of Engineers report, which called it an "antique" and recommended replacing it.

The lock replacement project didn't get very far because Ninth Ward residents complained about noise and launched a legal fight that bogged down the work.

Levees Not Tall Enough

The levees along the Industrial Canal's eastern side are supposed to stand at a height of 15 feet, according to the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

Joseph Suhayda, a retired Louisiana State University coastal oceanographer, who told the Journal he suspects the levees aren't actually that tall, partly due to sinking of the land beneath them. Mr. Suhayda now consults for a maker of flood-protection barriers. If he's right, that would mean the levees weren't high enough to handle even a Category 2 or 3 hurricane. Katrina was nearly a Category 5.

The Corps of Engineers concedes some of its levees in the area "have settled and need to be raised to provide" the level of protection for which they were designed, according to a fact sheet on the Corps's Web site dated May 23, 2005. But federal budget shortfalls in fiscal 2005 and 2006 "will prevent the Corps from addressing these pressing needs." Even had sufficient funds been available the work could not have been completed in time to prevent the Katrina floods.

Designed for the Mississippi, Not the Gulf

In an earlier September 2 story the Journal noted that in Louisiana, coastal wetlands provide some shelter from surging seawater, but more than one million acres of coastal wetlands have been lost since 1930 due to development and construction of levees and canals. For every square mile of wetland lost, storm surges rise by one foot.

"Moreover, the levees in New Orleans were built to keep the city from being flooded by the Mississippi, but instead caused it to fall below sea level. Now the Gulf of Mexico has moved into the city," says the Journal.

As the hurricane rolled into New Orleans, scores of boats broke free or sank. In the Industrial Canal, the gush of water broke a barge from its moorings. It isn't known whose barge it was. The huge steel hull became a water-borne missile. It hurtled into the canal's eastern flood wall just north of the major street passing through the Lower Ninth Ward, leading officials to theorize that the errant barge triggered the 500-foot breach. Water poured into the neighborhood.

When the storm was over, the barge was resting inside the hole. "Based on what I know and what I saw, the Lower Ninth Ward, Chalmette, St. Bernard, their flooding was instantaneous," said Col. Rich Wagenaar of the Army Corps.

It didn't help that the Mississippi River, which runs along the southern border of these neighborhoods, rose 11 feet between Sunday and Monday mornings. Coastal experts say that could have worsened flooding by limiting the water's escape route.

As the water roaring out of the Industrial Canal turned the streets of eastern New Orleans into rivers, the same areas were hit from the other side by the storm surge coming off Lake Borgne. Engineers say the estimated 20-foot surge also appeared to overflow levees just north of St. Bernard Parish. Shrimp boats were dumped in a marshy section between Lake Borgne and the city.

Responsibilities Unfulfilled

The city of New Orleans issued a "Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan" for hurricanes well before Katrina arrived. The city accepted the responsibility for issuing a warning, ordering and managing evacuation, arranging for buses for those without any other transportation, setting up and maintaining shelters, and other critical duties.

As one editorialist wrote, "Given the corruption in municipal agencies - one not necessarily cynical Louisiana politician (Billy Tauzin) said some time ago that "Half of Louisiana is under water and the other half is under indictment" - it was inevitable that a picture of responsibilities unfulfilled would emerge after a storm like Katrina."

Among the city's self-proclaimed responsibilities was the job of the mayor to order an evacuation 48 hours before the hurricane came ashore, not 24, hours, as Mayor Nagin did; the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority was meant to "position supervisors and dispatch evacuation buses" to evacuate at least some of the "100,000 citizens of New Orleans [who] do not have means of personal transportation," but it did not, and the flood claimed the buses.

Moreover, the city was responsible for establishing shelters co-ordinated with "food and supply distribution sites" which the American Red Cross, the Salvation Army and others were to provision, but the city did not.

Both agencies provided the supplies but as Fox cable News correspondent Major Garret revealed, they were barred by local authorities from delivering them to those stranded in the city at places such as the Superdome who most needed them in the immediate aftermath of the storm.

As the Journal reported on September 2, city officials appear to have been well aware of their responsibilities. As late Aug. 1, officials close to the planning confirmed to the New Orleans Times-Picayune that the transit authority had developed plans to use its own buses, school buses, and even trains to move refugees from the city when disaster struck.

Failed Execution of the Plan

Part of its "Future Plans" section, for example, concerns the levees. It also includes discussion of "the preparation of a post-disaster plan that will identify programs and actions that will reduce of eliminate the exposure of human life and property to natural hazards."

In 9,000 words, there are only four references to the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Nowhere, not even in a section on catastrophic events, do the words "Department of Homeland Security" appear.

The city declared that its hurricane preparedness procedures were "designed to deal with the anticipation of a direct hit from a major hurricane." Such a hurricane hit, and New Orleans was not prepared. The first questions that legislators in Washington and in Baton Rouge should be asking are simple: Why didn't the buses run? Why were people left to starve? Where did all those dollars go?

What the Journal reported showed the immense magnitude of the disaster and explained what created a catastrophe beyond anything most people in New Orleans anticipated. The real cause of the tragedy lay in the history of the city's below sea level location – a fact that can be traced back to the city's founding.

The attempts to prevent the Mississippi from rising over its banks and flooding the area has been a recurring problem, as have the miscalculations surrounding the ability of the dikes to deal with storms even less severe than Hurricane Katrina.

[MOE]

if the mayor was lilly white they would be all over him. if the gov.was a man they would be all over him. by they i mean the liberal press.if we as a people don't wake up and stop all this damn political correct shit we are doomed.listen to what people are saying,to blame bush for new orleans is to me just down right stupid.if anyone reads this and disagrees with me please explain your side to me.i just don't get it.oh yeah,one more thing, why is bush hated so?      :veryangry:    

[injun46]

if the mayor was lilly white they would be all over him. if the gov.was a man they would be all over him. by they i mean the liberal press.if we as a people don't wake up and stop all this damn political correct shit we are doomed.listen to what people are saying,to blame bush for new orleans is to me just down right stupid.if anyone reads this and disagrees with me please explain your side to me.i just don't get it.oh yeah,one more thing, why is bush hated so?      :veryangry:    

He's hated by the Dem's and the liberal press & media, who only report what they want you to hear. The silent majority will speak at the polls.

[Pop]

I thought "my" side was kinda evident.

Brown represented for the feds. He's history.

GW got his game on and looked right at us and copped to responsibility. A leader does that and I have never been more proud of him than for that single act.

The feds screwed the pooch and no amount of sayin it ain't so is gonna make it ain't so.

Brown knows it, Bush knows it. There is integrity in fessing up when it's the right thing to do. They are doing the right thing (although my gut is Brownie is a lackey and is being fed to the hounds soundbite by soundbite).

 

The people of the states of Louisiana and Mississippi and Alabama would be wise to seek whatever pound of flesh they deem apppropriate from their state leadership and the cities of New Orleans, Biloxi, the small burgs and parishes, they are well within their rights to set fire to the asses of the local gummint that left them hanging. More power to 'em.

 

But me, I live on a mountain 1400 miles away and I want to be gawdamn sure that if and when the feces hits the impellers up heah, that the feds are on their game should that next time be my time. If my local yokels fall about like the Keystone Cops should that sad day come, it won't be from lack of me registering my concerns at town meeting and should they leave me and mine without recourse I'll make sure that they understand my perspective in no uncertain terms. For the nonce, the feds acted like limp dicks when Katrina came calling and summary castrations is the order of the day, lest it happen to me next.

 

Not bashing anybody. Truth is truth and there's plenty fault to go around.

 

You watch and see. Some a these political careers are over and some a these other SOBs are going to get cut by the sharp edge of the legal knife. Some others are going to meet they makers at the hands of the dispossessed, widowed, orphaned, and just plain pissed off.

 

This is the death of many, some of whom died at the hand of Ma Nature and some who died under the weight of incompetence, shortsightedness, corruption, and the blanket rejection of plenty of good data. The former, I hope they can find peace in acceptance. I hope that were it me I could find solace in the face of serendipity. But if I were one of the latter, my work would be cut out for me. I would be in the business of retribution  and it looks like it would be a growth industry.

[DaytonaSpirit]

POP FOR PRESIDENT!!!!  

 

 

 

[homer]

Pres makes his fourth trip....Blanco sez the buck stops here..Brown blames Blanco, also sez he asked the feds to take over one day post Kat and feds sez he didn't show the same sense of urgency...fuckin soap opera...to boot, some bitch is complaining about her father's remains from a cemetery possibly floating around (that happens more often than u think in new orleans)..who gives a fuck? ???

gotta go to work, you guys keep dillydallying about who's to blame, giving the state to the skaters, etc...

rest assured when something major hits your neck of the woods (and it will), i'll be there to be a pundit and [play the blame game and tell you how your people are all useless pieces of shit...

nah, i'll be there to help them rebuild just as always  

eric

[Guest_ikonboard]

Im not sure Gary , but I dont think Harry could actually count all the millions of Japanese humans that he vaporized during WWII, Maybe you have clear count on that!

 

Heaven knows the "LIMOSINE LIBERAL" Rockerfella group was great at spending government money but not his own! I dont believe you quite have a real concept of what government entails, I realize you worked for the state , but were you an elected official? Probably not!

 

At any rate , obviosly you were brainwashed early in your career , lets steal the hard earned money from people like Bill Gates and give to the dead beats out there, but wait ? thats not true , the democrats are just like the republicans (they dont want to pay higher taxes either / when rich) , lets tax the shit out of the majority (middle class) and they can pay for the dead beats , afterall the dead beats are Anericans too, right? Well , I see it as  sink or swim time , I aint giving the deadbeats shit! I bet when some slimy vagrant walks up to your car your the kind of person that (enables him) gives him a few bucks so he can blow it on tobacco or wine even though he told you he wanted to buy food , your mind locked on the notion he was buying food!

[Gary2Wheels]

Im not sure Gary , but I dont think Harry could actually count all the millions of Japanese humans that he vaporized during WWII, Maybe you have clear count on that!

 

Heaven knows the "LIMOSINE LIBERAL" Rockerfella group was great at spending government money but not his own! I dont believe you quite have a real concept of what government entails, I realize you worked for the state , but were you an elected official? Probably not!

 

At any rate , obviosly you were brainwashed early in your career , lets steal the hard earned money from people like Bill Gates and give to the dead beats out there, but wait ? thats not true , the democrats are just like the republicans (they dont want to pay higher taxes either / when rich) , lets tax the shit out of the majority (middle class) and they can pay for the dead beats , afterall the dead beats are Anericans too, right? Well , I see it as  sink or swim time , I aint giving the deadbeats shit! I bet when some slimy vagrant walks up to your car your the kind of person that (enables him) gives him a few bucks so he can blow it on tobacco or wine even though he told you he wanted to buy food , your mind locked on the notion he was buying food!

....WTF...accountability is what I'm about here.we're IN the nuclear age Mr..don't matter now 'bout the history.....as for the 'Limosine Liberal' moniker,tell me the last time you DID'NT see a politician step out of a limo.Don't care about his fucking party...get real.Rockefeller did'nt contibute to charities and foundations?Ever hear of the Rockefeller Foundation.....shit.

And by the way, one of those down and outers I mighta' hepled along the way,stood as good a chance as any of being a friend or relative of yours or mine.Smarten up Mr.

 

RIDE SAFE....LIVE LONG

:wave: